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Deep Dive with Dr D
Discussions on life and living with Dr D. A man who has risen from the lowest depths of life to the amazing life he has now.
Deep Dive with Dr D
Beyond the High: Finding Meaning in the Miles (w/guest Sarah Cannon)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
"Just keep going." These three simple words carry profound weight in Sarah Cannon's world, whether she's pushing through mile 34 of a 50-mile ultramarathon or reflecting on her journey from substance abuse to recovery.
In this raw and hopeful conversation, Dr. D sits down with his longtime friend Sarah to explore the remarkable transformation they've both undergone since their shared days of active addiction in 2006. Back then, they were staying up for days, making impulsive decisions like stealing motorhomes at dawn, and inventing "lighter leashes" for their drug paraphernalia. Today, Sarah has completed her first 50-mile ultramarathon—an achievement reached by less than 1% of the population—while maintaining her 23-year career as what might be the county's longest-serving barista.
What makes this story so powerful isn't just the dramatic before-and-after contrast, but the revelation that the same qualities that once fueled their addictions—dedication, persistence, and single-minded focus—have become their greatest strengths in recovery. "We gave our all to active use," Dr. D reflects, "and you can just flip that script and use it in the same way in recovery."
Sarah's ultramarathon journey serves as the perfect metaphor for recovery itself. She logged an astonishing 1,270 training miles since February to prepare for her 50-miler, demonstrating how seemingly impossible goals become achievable through consistent, incremental progress. For Sarah, running provides not just physical benefits but mental clarity: "Most of the time when I run, my head is quiet, which is wonderful." This meditative state offers the same peace that substances once falsely promised.
When asked what advice she'd give someone struggling in a dark place, Sarah doesn't hesitate: "Just put your shoes on and go out the door and see what happens." This philosophy—taking the next small step forward even when the end goal seems impossible—has carried her through both recovery and ultramarathons alike. "Even if it's a crappy run, when you're done, you still feel better because you did something."
Join us for this compelling conversation about transformation, perseverance, and finding purpose in the journey. Whether you're in recovery, supporting someone who is, or simply seeking inspiration to overcome your own challenges, Sarah's story reminds us that our darkest traits can become our greatest strengths when channeled in the right direction.
Meet Sarah Cannon
Speaker 1And here's Katrina throwing it down. Okay, it's a little dark, but it looks good on the recording, so you'll see you might have to help guide me. Oh, you're good. I'm not good at this Welcome to the studio. Okay thanks, johnny, stay. Oh, you can't come. Yeah, no, your tooth smells really good, I sprayed. Nope nope oh.
Speaker 2Oh, you're setting a mood here.
Speaker 1yep, it's ready okay we're live on the talk and on facebook okay this will probably be a well attended one. Okay, yeah, sarah says okay, here we go okay, I'm just gonna see how our volume is.
Speaker 2Okay, go ahead okay, oh yeah, perfect all right okay a lot of okays.
Speaker 1Yep, here we are okay here we are, here we are. Uh-huh, this one all right, wow, there's a lot of, a lot, a lot of action. Yeah, screens. So we've got some friends on the talk. No one on live on facebook yet, but we don't care, don't come, why okay? How can you have so many phones? Yeah, what do you got? Well, this one's for tiktok specific. That's my burner phone.
Speaker 1I call it my burner phone, but it's not you need a flip phone for that, I know, and then that's my phone. This is a first. I'm live on uh facebook, oh, oh yeah, I can just use one phone for facebook, one phone for in the computer. This is what's recording. Okay, so that's what. See how good that looks, yeah we look a little dark for them. It looks good there because that camera's pretty nice, that's the important one. You're really short. Well, that chair is about an inch shorter yeah, and you have a cushion do you want to switch?
Speaker 2no, you okay, yeah okay you've got that bad back and stuff yeah that's true, okay, so the mic's right here.
Speaker 1It picks you up on that side, okay, um, and it picks up.
Speaker 2Fine, you don't have to like go like this or anything, just grab it, eat it.
Speaker 1I'm famous, all right here to go like this or anything. Just grab it. You don't have to eat it. I'm famous. All right, here we go. I'll do my quick little intro.
Speaker 1Welcome to Deep Dive with Dr D Yep. Yeah, I always do my shameless plug for my book. You can get it wherever you buy books. Grit Over Shame it's the short story of the wild ride of my life, and Sarah's in it in a few different spots. In fact, you are in the forward Yep. I get to participate on a daily basis. This is Sarah, stephen Jay, corey Bailey and so many more. Without friends who have helped lift me up and keep pushing me forward, I wouldn't have all I have in life. That's just one spot. So you can get it wherever you buy books. It's available ebook, audio book, paperback. What else is there? I don't know. So here we go. I have Sarah Cannon, so my first guest was Tyler.
Speaker 1Two weeks ago Sarah was going to come Sunday, but family emergency and this one is dedicated to the memory of my niece, rendale, who passed less than a week ago today. She was an honorary honorary one, rindale. You remember rindale? Yeah? So, uh, here it is the rescheduled one, and then next weekend, if it works, I'm gonna have katrina on. Yeah okay, yeah, okay, here we go. Uh, so I've I've got some questions, you know, I I'll kind of pull from them and then we'll just see where this goes. We might not, probably won't, ask them all.
Speaker 2Did you study your questions? I did, and then I'm going to make sure, so I stopped. Okay, I'm just winging it. Yeah, that's how I do things.
Speaker 1So everyone knows about me that follows my podcast. They probably know some about you. You know If you're watching on the live. You know Sarah.
Speaker 2But for friends who don't know, you, tell us about you. Who are you? I am? Just let's see, I work at a coffee stand. I've worked there for over 20 years. 23?, 24?. I was 23 this year. 23?, yeah, 24?.
Speaker 1I was 23 this year 23 this year, Likely the longest serving barista in the county. Probably I would be willing to bet in the entire county there's no one that has been a barista longer. Yeah, it's been a long time.
Speaker 2But yeah, make coffee. I like to run and do outdoor stuff. We'll talk about it.
Speaker 1She likes to run. Yeah, go on.
Speaker 2So the schedule fits perfect. I get off at noon and then I go do my outdoor activities or whatever it is. And yeah, I have a good family.
Speaker 1Went and saw them yesterday, my brother, this is going to be weird, because we talk all the time but we never really look at each other.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's kind of awkward, it's okay. So if we're just looking at you, especially with a microphone in the middle of us, yeah right, it's like boop, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 2Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1So where are you from originally?
Speaker 2Originally I was born in Oregon, oh that's right.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2And then we moved around and then I grew up on the west side, yeah.
Speaker 1Covington Yep, yeah, so siblings who do?
Speaker 2you got. I have Brian, my older brother, and Polly, my little brother.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, and you're right in the middle.
Speaker 2I'm the middle one. Yeah, and she aunt with all of her nieces and nephews. How many you have total?
Speaker 1uh, oh, gosh, uh two nephews, three nieces, yeah, okay, and your parents both still alive, obviously, and very active retired finally, yep, they play all the time.
Speaker 2Yep, that's what they're going to screwing off okay, what brought you to ellensburg school school.
Coffee Stand Life and Family
Speaker 1So you went to school, you graduated um with a public health degree and, uh, just kept being a barista. Yeah, you know one thing that I like about you I don't know if I've really said this out loud, but that your simplicity of your life, that it's actually really attractive. And I tell people, you know, because some people hear oh, they're a barista, like who? No, she, she works monday through thursday, which is kind of new. New. You worked monday through friday for years, open, which is five. You get there 4, 45, five somewhere, yeah, and then she's off. You're you, you're off at noon every day and she's frugal with her money. In fact she's probably got more money in her savings account than most of us and she manages her money really well. She actually makes really good money. She has a following at the stand. When Sarah doesn't work, jody loses business. We know that and she probably Sarah probably knows everything about everyone in this county.
Speaker 2Yeah, I know a lot of things, yeah.
Speaker 1Because those that are baristas know that you're also counselors.
Speaker 2Yeah, you hear it all.
Speaker 1Mm-hmm. What's your? I know we talk about the struggles of being a longtime barista. What's your favorite thing about your job?
Speaker 2Oh, the hours are really good. Yeah, the hours are good and it's kind of fun Like I've been there so long. Some of the kids that are now young adults I saw like in their mom's belly.
Speaker 1Yeah, and then I made them hot chocolates, and then they, they, you know, went through the red bull phase.
Speaker 2Now they're sophisticated coffee drinkers, being good humans um alicia's son jake jake come through, so does alicia come to her?
Speaker 1no, no, she doesn't. She goes to dnm yeah dnm sucks. I mean I go to weininger's, so I don't even go to sarah's, but whatever. No, so jake comes through and you remember, when he was born, like we've lived here long enough, yeah, that we know these kids that are now young adults which is weird, so that's cool.
Speaker 1You like that yeah, I like that here's your opportunity to tell anyone who goes through a coffee stand what is the most frustrating thing that happens oh, when you have a line and people keep talking ah, friends, yeah, okay, we've got some people on the book.
Speaker 1We've got some people. If you're live, if you look in your rear view mirror and there's a line of cars, finish your business and move on. Okay, because she's gonna be kind and not tell you to move on. Maybe if you're jake, jake, if you're listening, jake, you gotta go, but he's probably attuned to the line behind there are some people who just keep chatting and there's a line of four cars yeah, yeah, go, yeah, yeah, just carry on okay, we can continue the conversation the next day yeah, yeah, good, nice, uh, so we got your family.
Speaker 1What brought you to ellensburg? Did you plan on being here? No 20 something years? No, what was your plan? Did you have a plan when you came to school? No, you were still drinking when you came to school yeah, so you were just kind of getting by.
Speaker 1You came to school because mom and dad said go to school. Yeah, okay, that's what you did, that's yeah. True, paulie came here. Yep, afterwards we might talk a little bit about that. Yeah, get there or not, but paulie's also a graduate of central. Uh, where did brian go? Oh, yeah, fancy. Yeah, he's engineer.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, that's right he's been with the same company for a long, long time yeah long time. Yeah, I remember we went and visited him.
Speaker 1I do at one of our concerts did we just happen upon him or we planned to meet him?
From Active Use to Recovery
Speaker 1no, we just showed up we did yeah, that was probably uncomfortable for him yeah and paulie. You know, we have our paulie stories yeah okay, let's ask a question. You ready? Yeah, okay, did you ever imagine that two people you and I, who used to stay up for days on end, have an express way to Yakima in 2006, would now be running toward finish lines, literally running and in the goals that I've accomplished, instead of from the consequences of active use?
Speaker 1no yeah, no not at all when you think back know, I know I have my thoughts about the struggle of getting back to recovery. What was your darkest point where you thought you wouldn't be able to come back, it wasn't going to happen?
Speaker 2the darkest, I don't know. I mean, there was a couple times I remember specific moments of using where I wasn't sure if, um, my like body was going to make it through it physically. Um, there's definitely moments often coming down, moments where you're just like yeah yeah that, that the whole dark dark take over the crash, yeah yeah yeah, but I never like was like, I never thought like, I like kind of like I never thought about it. It's just like when are we getting high next?
Speaker 1yeah, yeah, true, and the little backstory for those don't that, don't know. Sarah and I originally met when both of us were in recovery. We actually met in the recovery community about 2001 fall of 2001, ish, and Sarah had returned to active use. So there was just some natural distance that happened there. And then when I returned to use I went and found Sarah. So then we had a time together of active use for about six months approximately, from it was late summer, it was august, late august, I think through till march 20th, march 25th, because I smoked pot one more time five more days so we have this period of time, this block of time, that a lot of crazy happened along the way.
Speaker 1I remember for myself there was a time I was laying on my futon in my little duplex Remember the duplex and I was getting high and I just wanted it. I just wanted to die. I just like maybe one of these hits will, just because I just didn't feel like I could stop. That was one of mine, yeah. So it's pretty, pretty crazy to think. You know, I was actually reading some of my journals this morning about that time period when we found recovery and it's a lot of my own journey. Um, that's like wow, it's pretty, pretty wild. I want to note that Sarah just finished her longest run ever. She is an ultra marathoner now and you say you didn't run around the block. What year did you start running?
Speaker 2Oh, it was like I want to say 2015, 2014. So about? 10, 11 years ago it was like 30. Yeah 30.
Speaker 1I don't know if I've ever asked you what kind of gave you this desire to start running?
Speaker 2Trent and Alan, because we were climbing a bunch of mountains and we had this idea to try to climb. It didn't happen, but climb the tallest peak in every state and in Vegas. They were going to vegas to run this half. And they're like, yeah, well, we're down there, we're climbing um boundary, which is the highest mountain in nevada, and I was like, well, I want to go, like I'm doing this, so I didn't want to run the half, but I wanted to climb the mountains, so I just was like whatever, I'll try this.
Speaker 2so that's how it all began, and it was hard.
Speaker 1And was that? Was that the you guys did a thing where in 24 hours, you ran a half or a full and you climbed a mountain?
Speaker 2Yeah, that was hood, that was in Oregon. We did hood and then Tell them about that yeah, so we did. We went. We had bad ideas. You often get bad ideas when you hang out with people doing like long activities for hours. But Trenton Allen and I had thought that we'd go do the Portland half marathon and then the next day we'd. No, it was. We climbed Hood and then the next day was the marathon half marathon.
Speaker 1And you did that.
Speaker 2Yeah, and it was, it was miserable. Wow, the marathon. And it was funny because, like then, Portland was hilly, like you know, which now it's just like not.
Speaker 1Not a big deal.
Speaker 2Yeah, but then it was just miserable.
Speaker 1Because that was early on.
Speaker 2Yeah, that was real early on.
The Journey to Ultra Running
Speaker 1So there's real early on, and what did you just complete? A 50 miler 50 miles, friends, it progressed, all miler. Yeah, it progressed, yeah, all at once yeah, it's pretty wild all right, so talk about your 50 mile run. What was your the most exciting thing going into it and what was your biggest fear going into it?
Speaker 2okay, the most exciting was, like I was saying, like the unknown of what it was going to feel like, what was going to be like, um, the training, because I always get blown away by the training programs because you don't, I mean, once you do your race after your training program, it's just amazing how well those things are created and how well they work when you follow them. You know, um, but yeah, my fear was that my because I kind of have a funny little foot issue every once in a while that that was going to come up and get mad and during the run.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I wouldn't be able to complete it because it's like you put a ton of time yeah, into getting ready.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, you said how many miles you put in for the training yeah, since february I did 1270 mile training miles.
Speaker 2It was a lot. It was a lot to train for a 50 miler.
Speaker 1It was a job so at what point during the run did you know I got this?
Speaker 2Oh, probably. Like. Well, man, early on, like early on, I was loving it. It was feeling really good, really good. I remember you saying that, yeah, like I'm 15.
Speaker 1Just so everyone knows, because the first part was all downhill, most of the elevation was on the last half.
Speaker 2Yeah, the last, from 30 on. It was exposed later in the day. Uh, more the elevation you know. So your legs are tapped, but um, yeah, so yep, it was like probably like once I started getting into new miles and I it was funny seeing them go off on my, on my watch, it would get me excited.
Speaker 1I was like oh, let's keep going like we got this, because there was like from like 30 to 34.
Speaker 2This kind of like period of like this really sucks. I'm not enjoying anything right now.
Speaker 1And then I got out of it, and then it was like so from then on it was on, and you had 16 miles left to do. Yeah, that's just wild yeah, yeah so let me ask you this. So let me how you, how would you relate this to you as a person in recovery?
Speaker 2The run.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Running. Oh, just knowing that, like well, a lot of it is. Just just keep going Like you just keep one foot in front of the other going. Sometimes the run sucks, sometimes life sucks, sucks. Sometimes the runs are great, you know. Sometimes you know the up and down, uh-huh, normal yeah.
Speaker 1So asking that, uh, how, how has so you, your life as a person in recovery? Is your exercise, your training, your, that? That's kind of your world. How do you see that as a a great path? A great path If someone else here is listening and wants to find a path to recovery. Obviously I think you would recommend it. Right, but how have you seen it as beneficial?
Speaker 2Uh um, it gives you confidence. It it shows you that your mind is incredibly powerful. When you set something to it, you can achieve it. Even if you don't think you can, you can like. It's crazy what your mind can do. Things take time, you know oh yeah, delayed gratification like long time. If you want something, you got to start plan. I mean I guess you do plan for it. That's one of the few things in life I do plan yeah, or my training, you know.
Speaker 1So that keeps focused, yeah, keeps you heading toward a goal, yeah a goal and it's um, it's really.
Speaker 2I find it super beneficial when I'm running, because I don't bring my phone, I don't have headphones, I just run and most of the time when I run, my I'm, my head is quiet, which is wonderful.
Speaker 1It's almost a meditative state. Yeah, like me when I'm on my motorcycle.
Speaker 2Yeah, you just go away yeah.
Speaker 1And you don't have the phone. No.
Speaker 2There's no distractions. You're like miles away from the house so you can't do anything about whatever you were worried about before.
Speaker 1That's pretty cool, yeah, nice. So you've kind of already answered this, but how did exercise for you go from punishment in a gym right to your spiritual practice, if you call it that?
Speaker 2yeah, just kind of what I was just saying, just the the uh quietness of the brain.
Speaker 1Yeah, and you, you are very, very dedicated to your exercise, like you have your whole ritual, your routines that you do, and that gives a structure, right? Yeah, gives us something to focus on.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And then, like you said, when you're running, that's your calm.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1So what about it? Is hard in a good way.
Speaker 2Hard in a good way the days that suck, the runs that are hard, when it's windy, when it's cold, when you don't want to do it, whatever it is, and you still do it and you feel like, all right, check, still did it, I followed through, yeah good. Because those two, those kind of runs, are just as important as good runs, because during the run there's really crappy low parts.
Speaker 1Do you own? This is just kind of random, but in this topic that you're an ultra-marathoner, yeah, Do you?
Speaker 2own, that I don't know, I mean.
Speaker 1Is it you? What do you mean? Is it me? Do you own it? That's who you are. Yeah, you're an ultra marathoner. You've gone from you and me freaking, doing crazy and your own stuff that you had. Now you're like, you're in an elite class, like we looked up. I looked up the percentage of people who run 50 mile runs.
Speaker 2It's like less than one percent. Do you own that? Um, I'm not sure if it's sunk in yet still yeah because sometimes I think about that. I did that. I'm like what? Yeah, that's wild it is wild to think about running 50 miles all at once. It's a lot yeah.
Speaker 1We both know, recovery isn't all trail runs and green smoothies. I don't even know if you drink green smoothies. What's?
Speaker 2something that still challenges me Showing up, like where, where am I showing up?
Speaker 1to Just in life.
Speaker 2Gosh, I don't know, like everyday stuff, insecurities, your brain. So when that happens, what keeps you going? You just go. There's not a choice.
Speaker 1But you've created something that I mean you do something that keeps you going. I would say your training, your running, we keep talking about your running, but you have a whole circuit. You do strength training and all of that right yeah. What else do you do besides that? That helps you in your life.
Speaker 2Music yeah. And sometimes I forget about that.
Speaker 1Yeah, same.
Speaker 2Yeah, and then I put on music and I'm like, oh my gosh, I put on my Gary Clark jr for this one.
Speaker 1Sure I played some record company this morning yeah, I was looking at that one. That's a good and we haven't really sat down and counted how many shows we've been together. A lot because that's kind of one of mine and Sarah's things is going to shows yeah, we got two coming up, we do yeah. Ben Harper.
Speaker 1Alabama shakes Alabama shakes, that's gonna be great. Yeah, so music, because I know you and I know that sometimes you struggle with just coming with the answers like this Talk therapy. You talk to people. I call it your circle of influence. You have that for yourself and I think that's important to you. Just what I know about you being able to process things, and you do that really well with those that are in your circle, right?
Speaker 1yeah like Katrina and Mariana and me and, I would guess, polly. Yeah, it's probably someone that's kind of new. He's always been there, but in a different way. Yeah, and that's pretty normal that people kind of ebb and flow. Yeah, I think that's really helpful for you and just your. I think also it really is with your running and your training, but just your structure in your life that's really important to you to have that knowing of what's coming.
Speaker 2Yeah, oh yeah. I don't like not knowing things. That freaks me out.
The 50-Mile Achievement
Speaker 1Oh hey, let's try this one. If someone had a highlight reel of our 2006 greatest hits oh my gosh, oh boy. Highlight reel of our 2006 greatest hits. Oh my gosh, oh boy. What would be one scene we'd laugh at now and one we probably want to burn. Oh man, oh, this is where we I know we talk about this a lot. I wish we still had the journals yeah, the logs we had.
Speaker 1I don't know what the printer's doing starting, but we actually had journals of this crazy time period. So my printer decides it wants to clean now. So if you hear that in the background, just ignore it it's cleaning, oh my god yeah, ignore it yeah, it's fine so what would be the what's the funniest moment?
Speaker 2gosh, there's a well, I mean there's the funniest moment.
Speaker 1Gosh, there's a well, I mean there's like cramming everything we owned into the back of the car. Yeah, anytime we'd go somewhere, we brought everything. Yeah, laptop, uh, snacks all the cds this is where harper came into our lives, her life, we. She got harper during the crazy yeah, we had harper.
Speaker 2He was our crack baby he is our crack baby.
Speaker 1Was our crack baby.
Speaker 2Harper lived 13 years and 15, 15 and two months 15 and two months. Yeah, daisy, just turned 15 she says she's gonna two months to outlive them, yep, outlive them both yep, uh, so yeah we would.
Speaker 1When we would go from point a to point B, we would bring so much shit.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And it was just hilarious.
Speaker 2And we never used any of it. No, your Tahoe was stacked Like in all of our clothes, Like we were literally. We never. Yeah, it was just a thing.
Speaker 1Well, I remember when people would hang out with us for the first time oh the lighter leashes. Oh, the lighter leashes. Yeah, okay, first time lighter leashes oh, the lighter leashes. Yeah, okay, hold on.
Speaker 1Yeah, they would be kind of like what is happening here and we're like this is just what we do, yeah it's okay and this isn't um, like I, I have no desire to return to that life, but I have heard this a few times along the way that people felt safe with us. There was there, I don't know. I've heard that a couple times. Yeah, now the lighter leashes. Yeah, I've never heard of a lighter leash. So when you're doing substances, yeah legal activity.
Speaker 1You use a lot of lighters. Yeah, we go through lighters and go through lighters because someone would borrow your lighter and then they would keep it. You know, it was like lighters, lighters, lighters. And we went to the store wasn't that a story we saw? And I look on the counter and it said lighter leash. And oh my god, it was like finding gold, yeah, in this, in the craziness, and so we got these things. And the first time we went to a place where we're doing these illegal activities, we have our lighters now on leashes. They're a belt clip and you just pull your lighter out and use it and then it snaps back. It's like a keychain, you know a retractable keychain. And they were like what?
Speaker 2is that they're like? Does anybody have a lighter?
Speaker 1that's not on a leash Like nope, because anyone that was with us had a lighter on a leash. It was hilarious.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. Or when we tried to steal your motorhome. Back was another really funny one.
Speaker 1Oh god, yeah. So I had this bread box motorhome yeah and I was storing it out of a friend's property and we got this wild idea that we were going to go camping. Yeah, okay, so that never happened, but we got a wild idea and it was two o'clock in the morning when we got this wild idea that we were going to go camping. I'm like well, I got a motor home, let's go get it. So we go out there.
Speaker 1At dawn it was just getting daylight and we're all like we gotta be quiet, we gotta be quiet. So we had Robert drive us out there.
Speaker 2Oh that was a whole thing we pulled over yeah.
Speaker 1We pulled over because Robert couldn't drive. He's like I can't drive or something, and I'm like pull over. So we literally it was freaking clowns getting out of the car, running around in circles deciding who's going to drive and who's going to sit where. So that happens on the way. And again this is all in Ellensburg, like the sun's just starting to come up. So we pull in and we think we're quiet. But we probably weren't quiet at all. No, but we're like we gotta be quiet, we don't.
Speaker 1We didn't want mark to come out yeah yeah, and I hadn't started this motorhome in god knows how long. So, and we had beers. I don't know why we had to have beers, you had your jacket full of beers because you got to have a beer while you're driving a motorhome, god. So I'm like come on, sir, and I don't even know why I had to have you with me, but apparently you needed to be with me, and so the first thing is you drop them all I fell.
Speaker 2That's right. You fell into the motorhome.
Speaker 1So all these beer cans fall out full, boom, boom, boom. I'm like, oh my god. So I'm trying to start this motorhome it's like oh my god, finally, it just fires up. It's really loud. So then we're like, okay, we gotta go. And it was probably a quarter mile out this dirt driveway. Well then, here comes robert. We had told him to leave, just let us, we'll come out. He's like, are you guys? Okay, we're like, dude, go, go, go.
Speaker 1So we got the motor home yeah get the motor home, we drive it into town, we park it in back of Rob house and that's where it's at yeah, for a long time, long time.
Speaker 2We never made it camping we never went can.
Speaker 1Oh, that was, yeah, that was a good one and then Tyler oh yeah now again, poor decision active use with my son, but this is what it and this is where I still have the sub shop and I'll never forget because he was working there.
Speaker 2Yeah.
2006 Greatest Hits: Crazy Memories
Speaker 1And this is the other thing. During all our craziness she always showed up to work. You missed one day and I managed the sub shop somewhat. So I was in working one day and Tyler comes in after a long night and he's like haggard. I in after a long night and he's like haggard. I'm like I just need you to work. Blah, blah, blah. And he starts waking up and I look on his, his forearms, and on each forearm one says billy and one says bob, big sharpie. I'm like dude, what is that? He's like well, which one do you want? Do you want billy or do you want bob?
Speaker 2I'm like oh, my god, oh boy yeah that was crazy yeah, that's, yeah, that's the one we can remember all right, here we go.
Speaker 1Here's one when you look at your life now. Okay, sober strong, running 30 miles for fun, right. 30 plus miles, 50 miles, all at the same time crazy.
Speaker 2What's something that still surprises you oh just how powerful the brain is, both good and bad. Oh yeah, you know, like we're just like talking about the fixation like of of the using, like that intensity, that powerful of your mind, but also like when used positively, is just remarkable, just as powerful yeah. So the mind, is the mind really? I mean, it's just, and even your space, your frame of mind, yeah, the perspective, what you look at, how you look at things.
Speaker 1Yeah, well, you know you hear this and I say this to people like we gave our all to active use, dedication, passion, if you call it that, perseverance, right, like blah, blah, blah. And what I say and I think you're kind of saying this is you can just flip that script and use it in the same way in recovery. Yeah, right, yeah, and that's pretty wild. Yeah, like the things that you've accomplished, the things that I've accomplished. This like Katrina is going to have 26 years.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Look at her. Yeah, it's pretty wild.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1Same. I told you I was reading my journal. You know, it was kind of a year or two, from 2007 to 2009, and then I was reading in 2017. I went all the way up, yeah, and I was trudging that road to earning my doctoral yeah, it's just yeah jesus just crazy yeah, but it's true and you did, you did it yeah we both crawled out of the dark you and your way, mine and my way and built something meaningful meaningful. What do you think your old self would say if she saw you now?
Speaker 2she'd probably be unimpressed, probably like or that's dumb, what a waste. Yeah, gosh, boring, right Boring. You ran 50 miles. What's wrong with you? Yeah?
Speaker 1Yeah, come back. Yeah, we can have some more fun. Right, you can run now. Yeah, oh God, that's funny.
Speaker 2Yeah, hmm, yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 1Okay, we're getting toward the end. So this is one I'm going to ask, if I remember, everyone I interviewed toward the end. So you now, right now, in this moment in time, and this will be out there for you know, I've got some people that listen to my craziness. I've had people reach out and say I really appreciate that you do this, it's helped me. Or I have family members who reach out that call me. I know it happens with you. You have people, so here's an opportunity for you to share with the world. What's one key thing you want to share to help someone move up and out of a dark space? To share to help someone move up and out of a dark space and it can be addiction or mental health or just anything what do you share with someone who's really in a dark space? What's that key thing that you say again and again?
Speaker 2Just keep going, keep trying.
Speaker 1Huh, you know, tyler said it two weeks ago when we recorded his Keep fucking going, yeah. That's it Isn't that interesting, it's so simplistic, but it's also so true and it's hard.
Speaker 2It's really hard. It's hard when you're not there, but so expand on that though.
Speaker 1So how do you keep moving forward when it's hard? What do you do?
Speaker 2You just do it, you just keep going. I mean, everything I do, all my stuff is running metaphors, but it's just like you just put your shoes on and you go out the door and see how it goes.
Speaker 1Yeah, kind of like. Mine is. Know, get up, make your bed. Yeah, just take a shower. Go forward. Tyler talked about that. Take a fucking shower. He says you say that to me sometimes and it's simplistic, but like you, put your shoes on and go for a run yeah, just go outside and see what happens because what happens when you go on that run?
Speaker 2it changes your everything. Even if it's a crappy run, when you're done you still feel better.
Speaker 1Yeah because you did something yeah one of mine is put one foot in front of yeah just just, it's like what, what is it?
Speaker 2martin luther king says it like if you can't run, walk yeah, you can't walk crawl if you can't crawl something else. It's so true, just go forward somehow, even if it's something small yeah do laundry. Yeah, the next day put it in like fold your clothes yeah it's little things, that's things that don't make you feel overwhelmed, because once you feel overwhelmed, nothing and that would make that, that old self, go.
Speaker 1That's dumb, don't do that yeah, exactly, don't fold that laundry hey, but that's what we learn to live a healthy life is you got to do the laundry, you got to take the shower, you got to go for the run, you got to do the things to get the momentum. Yeah, you might appreciate this. When I teach on motivation, I say to people motivation doesn't come when we're sitting on the couch. Motivation doesn't come when we're sitting on the couch. Motivation doesn't come when we're planning things. Motivation comes when you're actually doing things. So you get motivation to run when you're running and you want to run more yeah, once you start seeing the improvements.
Speaker 1That's true. That's good. Okay, this is one that I'm going to ask everyone I interview. This is your opportunity to ask me a question you've always wanted to ask me.
Speaker 2I think I've asked you everything.
Speaker 1Let's think about this yeah, could be one, could be twenty questions. What's something that you kind of go. I wonder why he does that. I don't know. I always get a little nervous too. What's what's gonna ask me? I don't remember what Tyler asked me either.
Speaker 2I can't even what. Okay, what about? I mean, this is a pretty basic one, but like any minus, maybe minus using with tyler, what is one thing that you um wish you could have done differently? Oh, oh god oh, what's your biggest regret?
Speaker 1It's really I talk to young people now and with Luz and Rendale recently I just said it to I just asked Cassie and Lauren just about use in general, just that I ever picked up any substance at all. Like I love my life, yeah, I appreciate what I have, you know. I like to say I don't have any regrets per se, but if it's picking up anything and I go all the way back to cigarettes, you know, and alcohol, I wish if I could do have a do over, I wouldn't touch any substance ever Because I've seen the benefits of putting them down, having lived the crazy life I have, and you and me have that unique journey of seeing the chaos. While there was fun in that, it was so much chaos. It's not sustainable, it's not healthy. Dark, yeah, it's not sustainable, it's not healthy, you know. Dark, yeah, very dark, um.
Speaker 1So, yeah, I go way back to childhood and and, uh, I wish I would have, you know, had a different. Uh, yeah, that's it Picking up at all? Yeah, and I remember when I did it was I mean I, I was very young, my brother, I think, gave me alcohol or something when I was like eight or nine. I remember that, but of my own volition. It was after Johnny died and Kenny and Terry moved in and Kenny was already smoking cigarettes and I don't know if he was smoking pot yet, but we were drinking and that's when I I made the decision. I remember that and I wish that my environment was different, so that decision wouldn't have would have came, wouldn't have came.
Speaker 2Yeah, there it is that would be weird to think, though, because then, you wouldn't have all that life. Yeah, it's like a double-edged sword it is is it is Because?
Speaker 1would I be giving back? Would I be the same person? No, probably not I don't know what I would be like. I don't know. Yeah, probably boring, so this isn't on here. But what's your advice to someone who's brand new in recovery, who's made that decision, they're putting it down and they're going to forge a path. What's your, what's your advice to them?
Speaker 2To find people that you like, that are living how you want to live, like I think important to surround yourself with people that are choosing not to use and drink, if that's's, you know, early recovery, yeah, probably you get a best idea but it's you know, just latch on yeah and hold on, yeah, and just it's going to be a ride and just keep trying. If it doesn't work, keep trying, because one of the times it will work.
Speaker 1Yeah awesome yeah well, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. I think this will be listened to by many, I'm sure, and I think there are good tidbits of wisdom in there and advice and hope. I like to give hope through this. That's my main goal. So until next time, bye.