Deep Dive with Dr D

Presence Over Numbing: Why This Local Business Owner Left Alcohol Behind (w/guest Kori Winegar)

• Dr. David A Douglas • Season 2 • Episode 16

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What happens when a driven business owner finally confronts the question: "Why am I drinking a fifth of vodka every day when I have a great business, a great wife, and a great kid?" In this candid conversation, third-generation business owner Kori Winegar takes us through his remarkable journey from dairy farm to coffee shop empire to sobriety.

Kori shares the fascinating evolution of his family business, which began in 1956 as one of Ellensburg's 100 dairy farms. Working alongside his grandfather from age eight, he learned the relentless work ethic of 365-day-a-year farming before the family pivoted to coffee shops and ice cream production. The transition wasn't just business—it was personal too, as Corey eventually had to confront his growing dependence on alcohol.

The heart of this episode explores Kori's unconventional path to quitting alcohol. For four months, he secretly participated in a program before telling his wife, battling shame and questioning his identity. Rather than adopting traditional recovery language or frameworks, Kori forged his own understanding—rejecting labels like "alcoholic" and embracing personal accountability. "I'm not afraid of alcohol," he explains. "I just don't need it anymore."

Six and a half years later, Kori reflects on the profound changes in his life—greater patience, deeper presence with his family, and a newfound confidence. His advice to listeners questioning their own relationship with substances is powerfully simple: "If you're questioning it, stop questioning and start answering." His story reminds us that freedom comes not from fighting constant battles against our demons, but from understanding why we needed those substances in the first place.

Ready to explore your own relationship with alcohol or other substances? This episode offers wisdom without judgment, hope without platitudes, and practical insights from someone who's walked the path. Subscribe now and join the conversation about authentic living, personal growth, and finding freedom from what no longer serves you.

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David:

We've started the recording. We've got good volume going there. Good yeah, here we are here we are.

David:

Yeah, okay, so I'll get started. Welcome to Deep Dive with Dr D, and I always do my plug for my book. If you haven't gotten a copy of my book, you can get it locally at Jerrol's or Pearl Street Books and you can get it online wherever you buy books Amazon, you can get the hard copy, you can get the ebook on Kindle and Apple books, and then I narrated it. So that was actually a request from a friend. I'm like, oh yeah, why wouldn't I On Audible, so you can get my book? It's out there. And then please subscribe to the YouTube channel or to my podcast or to my social media, whatever you want to do. And so that's enough about me. Welcome to the show.

David:

I've got my good friend ooh, wow, my good friend, Kori Winegar. If you follow me at all, you hear me talk about the importance of your circle of influence, and Corey is squarely in there. You know, when I think about the four or five people I communicate with on a regular basis, this guy's there and it's been that way for a little while. Yeah, I, I, I would. Several years now. Yes, very much so. Yeah, and we've known each other for a long time, yep, um, I'd say over a decade.

David:

Yeah, yeah, because of the coffee shop and everything else, the coffee shop and then, as we'll get into it, we became closer as you changed your relationship with alcohol. That's correct. I remember you and I sat down and you were just kind of curious because you saw me on social media.

Kori:

Yeah, well, I was kind of following you, I was watching you I was watching you for probably a year and a half, two years. Okay, I had a time before I was like, okay, I need to take a look at myself. Yeah, nice. And so that's what kind of made the change or helped me to push me to that direction.

David:

Good, and that's good to hear, because that's what I'm all about. I want to just if I can be a guiding light in any way for someone in life, or whether it's changing their relationship with alcohol or negative behavior, that's good. I like hearing that. So introduce yourself. We have some people watching online. But for the recording, for those people who don't know this guy, corey Weininger, tell us about you.

Kori:

Well, let's see, here I'm married, I have a child. I'm very much into their life now. I'll probably get into that a little bit later. Here I run a business here in town. It's a family business. It's been around since 1956. My grandfather was the one that first started it, and so I've worked with my grandfather. I milk cows with him. So it's kind of a cool little thing that I feel I have, because there's not a whole lot of people that can say that I worked with my grandpa but yeah, there's funny stories of that when he didn't wake up one time for the milking like he was supposed to, and so I had to knock on the door and it's 4 o'clock in the morning and I'm like, what am I to do? And I rode my three-wheeler down Water Street.

David:

Is that the picture in Winegar's? Oh yeah, that was my three-wheeler.

Kori:

Yeah, that was either my first or second three-wheeler. I rode it so much that I destroyed my first one, and so they had to upgrade me to a new one. But yeah, when I was eight years old, they gave me a three wheeler for Christmas. It was quite the gift, you were farming dairy farming.

David:

I was dairy farming and if I remember correctly I've asked you about this your family had the last dairy farm in the county.

Kori:

No, we didn't have the last, okay, but we were one of the. We might've been the last that did the bottling. Oh, got it Of the. You know the actual production of it, um, but no, I can't. I can't remember, um, I think it was. The scotts out in thorup was the very last one that finally, yeah, um left. But yeah, in 1960 there was 100 dairies in ellensburg, wow so, and now there's zero.

David:

Fascinating, yeah so, and that's just the transition if I use that word from small farms to large, massive corporations.

Kori:

Yeah, I think it's a combination of a lot of things. It's one of the things of where there wasn't much money in farming. It really has to be a passion, it has to be something and, to be honest with you, I think my dad's generation, where they grew up and grew up through the Depression era, and even my grandfather and all that kind of stuff, they were like if you can go find a job somewhere else to get some money, go do it. And so I think it kind of pushed people away from the farming aspect, which then made the farming have to be bigger, which to make money, to make money, but you still don't have. You know that's you still, even at that point, you're not making very much. Yeah, I mean, these big guys, guys that are out there, they're millions of dollars in debt, equipment and everything else where people don't really I mean go buy a tractor today, go see.

David:

My guest next weekend is Andy Rosbach Absolutely. He would know exactly yeah, and I have conversations with him just about hay farming and just farming.

Kori:

It's a lot it is, and dairy farming is just one of those things where, like it's where, I learned my work ethic, because the cows don't take a day off, it's 365, 24, seven, it really is. And so you know, when we finally stopped dairying in 1996, it was the first Thanksgiving I ever had where I didn't have to go milk cows later in the afternoon, or my dad didn't, or whatever right. So it was very strange to me, um, you know, did not have to go and go work or go do something like. We didn't have dinner at one o'clock or lunch, you know, turkey dinner at one, we had turkey dinner at three or four when we're all out of milk?

Kori:

yes, totally around it. Yeah, and that's the difference between. I mean not that hay farmers don't work, they work their butts off but dairy farmers and you know that kind of stuff. You're doing it every day, it's just.

Kori:

And my grandfather all year long all year long and my grandfather went to work as a dairyman and he worked for three and a half years straight with every without a day off. So when people come to me and say, oh you know, I've been working 40 hours this week and I'm very, I'm just like, okay, but anyway. So back to kind of where we are. That's kind of where my roots are, definitely in the farming stuff. We did sell the cows in 1996 for just reasons that we needed to. Just, you know, there's just a lot of different stuff that went on. My dad wasn't the sue happy type of guy and unfortunately he did an upgrade that kind of hurt our herd and he could have, and it wasn't him.

Kori:

It was the people that put the equipment in. But then from there then we were just like you know, plus we were just right in the middle of town. You know, town was growing. At that point we used to be the countryside of West 15th. We're not so so much anymore, you know, and so that's kind of where that transition changed. But we still had the stores, you know, and so we think we had up to I think it was six different espresso coffee stands in this town at one time.

Kori:

I did not know If you think about yeah, there's all sorts of different ones that are um that we could go through as far as when we went through the whole scenario. And so I learned a lot Um, I, I, we. When we sold the cows, we still bottled milk for a year, and then we had a piece of equipment that broke, okay, and then at that point it was like this isn't worth it anymore to keep doing this. So what we do now is we just buy the cream and to make our ice cream, because you still do that.

David:

I still do all the ice cream and all that kind of stuff, but we don't snack. Yeah, yeah, well, thank you man. Oh yeah, cream and all that kind of stuff, but we don't yeah.

Kori:

Well, thank you, oh yeah, so anyway. So we kind of did that, we did the transition. Talk about the coffee. How did coffee come into play? Well, it was pretty simple. In some aspects it was a mathematical equation where this little company called Starbucks was just getting going back in 1991. We were starting to do the ice cream at that point too. So we're like, well, let's throw this coffee thing in, because people were yelling at us for $3 gallon of milk. But you take, you know, a cup like this and you put a shot of coffee and a shot of chocolate in it and you could sell it for $3.50 all day and nobody complained and it didn't take very long. We have a dairy, we have milk.

David:

And whose idea was that.

Kori:

It was my dad's to begin with. That's cool, um to really say okay, let's go.

David:

I always enjoyed seeing your dad. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kori:

Well, everybody did, yeah, so so then coffee came in coffee came in, the ice cream came in, my sister was coming back um from college and wanted to come back to the company, and my dad was like, okay, I was just graduating from high school and I didn't really want to go to college. I attempted, attempted, but I didn't succeed. And so then, at that point, it was just like let's grow. So we started growing the retail locations and then, once we sold, the cows we shrank again and then we just kind of had to find our ways.

Kori:

We had to switch gears and understand that we weren't farmers anymore. That, really, or we still are but, our farm is now, to some extent, the world.

David:

Like I wasn't depated on the cows anymore.

Kori:

I'm depated.

David:

You still have a production facility, but it's producing different things, exactly Because you guys make nearly all your own baked goods.

Kori:

Yep, we do.

David:

Breakfast sandwiches, yep Breakfast burritos, yep Pastries, ice cream, of course, pastries you guys make all that. I don't think people realize that you do that.

Kori:

No, I don't. We haven't done a good job with that by any means. Well, you've done a good job with it, but not with letting people know that it's homemade.

David:

Yeah, it's literally made right here in Ellensburg. Yeah, absolutely that's pretty cool. Yeah, I've learned for Weiningers. You guys have adapted with the times right?

Kori:

Yeah, well, we've had to. Yeah, yeah, we wouldn't be around today if we were still milking cows. I mean, that's just kind of where it is, that's pretty wild. So it's been an interesting rollercoaster ride, yeah.

David:

Yeah.

Kori:

So when we went to the seventh and main location, which is Yep, where the porches, that's, where is um, where the porches, which is where I started going to whining, yeah, yeah, so that was kind of the the one that we condensed everything to and just kind of focused on there, okay, and then it took us about, oh, it took us about probably four or five years before we're like okay, well, let's, we need another location, and that was alder street and that's the one on university and alder, yep, okay, so that was so, and then then we went from there. So when we went to university in Alder, um, then at that time, you know, ken was, ken was the owner.

Kori:

And um. And then he got to a point where he was like you know what? I'm ready to retire, I'm going to go ahead and sell and do all this kind of stuff. And so I'm like, okay, well, you know, when you sell, um being I was leasing the place a lot of times depending on who you lease it or who you sell it to, that person may or may not want us, right. Well, that put a little bit of fear in me. So that's when I knew that Gerald's used to have a dirt lot next to him and Rolf and I were building this great relationship as well, and so I went and talked to Rolf and said, hey, what are you doing with the dirt?

David:

So that was your idea.

Kori:

Yeah, hey, what are you doing with the dirt? You know that was your idea. Yeah, I was like where would you be up to selling the selling the dirt to me? And he's like, well, I'm not going to sell the dirt to you, but I'll build you a building.

David:

Wow, I was like okay and that's a pretty unique kind of setup there, with gerrard's and people that don't know. In ellensburg we call it the gerrard's location, but weininger's is one half of the building and Gerald's which is now they sell office supplies. They do a lot more than that. You can buy records, used records and new records. Anyway, that's a different story. Ralph has adapted. So you have this retail store on one side and literally you walk, there's a door that opens and you go right into Weininger's Yep, that's really, it's cool. And you go right into Weininger's Yep, that's really it's cool.

Kori:

Yeah, it's kind of cool because we're both third-generation owners.

David:

Oh, that too. So it kind of has its own history. It's your own history? Yes, it does.

Kori:

Yeah, yeah, and I think they were 19,. I want to say it's 1949, but I could be wrong, but I think that's. But they used to be a soda jerk type of place. They Like a coffee or not coffee, but an ice cream type of job and everything Like way back when, when the main drag was coming through, this was the highway. Yeah, it was the highway, so that's where it was, so anyway, so that's kind of been the transition from there. It took us two years to get the Gerald's location built and that was 10 years ago, yeah, To finally open the doors Super cool, yeah.

David:

And this is what I like about doing. This is we, we learn and and kind of go in these different segues.

David:

So local business owner long time, decades and decades of history with your family here, married and Curtis your son, who's now in 10th, 11th, 10th grade yeah, he's a year ahead of my grandson, anthony, and I've always really admired you for your role as a father. I think I've said that to you, but I want the world to hear it. For me, that's been my most important role in life. Now it's a grandfather, but I so I watched dads and you know I just recently saw him driving this guy's driving now, but I was in getting my coffee and he's driving and just you know you're raising a good young man. You're doing good. Thank you, you and your wife, yeah, okay, so let's dive into a question. Okay, all right, sounds good. So thank you for all that great info about you.

David:

Again, I'm a oh yeah, I'm a Weiningers cheerleader. I love Weiningers. I go there every day. I just brought the family there last night. Alark won his first football game. So the question's usually do you want to go to Weiningers? And he said yes, so, and it was busy, it was good, lots of ice cream. So there you go. You're a husband, father and business owner, as we, as we all just learned. How did your decision to stop drinking shift the way you show up in those roles?

Kori:

Well, I think that the first piece would be is like you become present, you know, and like you're really it's. It's an interesting process to go through, because when I first made the decision, you know, I was like I was trying to figure out why was I, why was I even drinking the way I was? You know, what was I doing, what? What was the point of this? Um, you know, and I just I felt like I had an issue and that I needed to get it resolved and all of that, and so that's why I tackled it and I went after it, and went after it in an unconditional way, cause I was ashamed, I felt terrible about that, what I was doing to myself, um, how I was treating, you know, my family and stuff. I wasn't bad. I wasn't like a abusive type of person but I wasn't present.

Kori:

And I think that's the part that I realized the most as far as how much I wasn't present, that I needed to be, especially with my wife and my son, and how I wanted to be there. And you know, I think it's just, it's a transition that you go through to finally, ok, I'm going to tackle this thing and I tackled it and I got it. And now, now, where is the difference is? You know, before, you know, I I have much greater patients than I ever used to. I had to work on that.

Kori:

I didn't I didn't always, um, you know, and so I had to learn what that meant. As far as what is the word patients, pain, and what is the point of where? You know, there's so many times when you were drinking, or when I was drinking, you know, I would say something that, because I didn't have that patient's feet, you know, filter, and so then all of a sudden you'd blow it up into something that's much greater than it should have been and it didn't need to be, and that was at all facets of my life. Right, that was at the business world, that was over, that was at home front, that was, you know, raising the sun, all these kind of things. So I think it's just a matter of me, you know, once I made that change, I just became present. I just was able to really comprehend what was going on. I could take a step back instead of just lunging.

Kori:

I mean, I'm one of those guys that I'm pretty driven in what I do and how I go, and I think a lot of us that are driven in that kind of stuff. I think alcohol and that kind of is is a huge piece of our life because we'd use it to slow us down. I mean, if you really think about it, that's what we're using it for, because we're ready to keep going and going, and going and going and we want it done and we want it done. And so when that doesn't happen, then that gets frustrating. And so that's where at least this is how I was and I would use it. I would go to alcohol to calm myself down then and then be able to whatever and that was mainly on the business side of life Like I was ready to go with business and I was doing it for my family. I was doing it because of that. I was wanting to go create all that has been created because of them.

Kori:

But then through that whole time when I'm consuming, I was actually forgetting about them because I was so upset, wasn't dealing with what I needed to deal with.

Kori:

I wasn't putting that point and being present with them in their life.

Kori:

So, even though I'm driven over here and going and I'm numbing myself because I'm tired of dealing with certain things that aren't getting done or whatever it's slow or however it's going on, then I'm tired of dealing with certain things that aren't getting done or whatever it's slow or however it's going on, then I'm taking it away over here and that's really what started hitting me, you know, because my kid was he was basically nine, 10 years old I knew I was getting into a time where I needed to be, I needed to stand up, I needed to be a man and I needed to figure out what that meant, um, you know, and to be able to guide him and direct him and, you know, be there for my wife and help her as long the way and have her be able to get mad at me and me not to get mad back and just go through the things that you got to go through, right, and you know, to be a man to be able to do all that stuff.

Kori:

I couldn't do it if I kept consuming and I wouldn't have done it, you know, cause I would just bury myself over in that corner and just drink myself away.

David:

Yeah, that's interesting. I like that you talk about the patience thing, you know, cause life is life, right and and uh, having the ability to be able to pause is really important so that we don't say stupid shit is one way I look at it. Right, don't say things that then we what have to apologize for we regretted, saying, right, um, I don't miss that at all. No, and that's. I think that's a really good um thing to recognize. I know it's small snowballs.

Kori:

Oh, yeah, right, yeah, because you say at one time then all of a sudden, oh, I'm so sorry, and then you say it again okay and it's a different time or it's something else.

Kori:

And then the next thing you know and the other part about that is that then these are the stories that I'm telling myself, right, and so it's like this revolving door of this ball that's going down, but it's always coming back in my faith, at face, and it's always because of me, it's always because of the choices that I'm making, and so that's really where I, you know, once I stopped it, figured out what the heck was the reason behind the whole consumption, because that was one of the things when mark told me the first time, you know he's, he said I've said this to you before, but he says alcohol wasn't your problem, alcohol is your solution. Yeah, and I was like that's solution, right? Yeah, well, I like to solve things. So what is the solution? Yeah, it's as exact, that's what we've got to go figure out, yeah, and I was like, well, I'm in.

David:

So let's go do this. So you, you did you, um, if I use the term unconventional or non-traditional, you've kind of forged your own path, and I always love hearing that, and that's something I've admired about you. So what does that look like for you when changing your relationship? Because you don't drink at all, right?

Kori:

I don't drink at all. No, it's not on my repertoire. But I guess the big difference is I'm not afraid of it.

David:

Yeah.

Kori:

Yeah, see, I'm not afraid. I could sit down and have a drink right now if I needed to. But I don't know. I don't have the comprehension of why do I need it? What good does it do me anymore? Yeah, like that's the difference of it to other type of places. Nothing against them, they all work.

David:

And I don't care.

Kori:

Whatever happens, however, you need to do it. That's what my mantra is yeah, if you feel you got an issue, I don't care how you go get it resolved, but go get it resolved and get lying to yourself. Yeah, you know, yeah, and so that's the whole piece of it, but for me, I'm not afraid of it, which gives me the confidence. You know, I'm around beer, I'm around alcohol, I'm around all that type of stuff. I'm so grateful for my father for uh scaring the shit out of me pardon my french but scaring the crap out of me for, uh, drugs. Okay, I was 14, it's kind of a funny conversation or a funny story that I could share if you want me to. But well, we always had pizza Friday night. Okay, you know, I'll never forget this the whole time that I, at least my brain's working, but there was one. So we're driving down the road and my dad finally talks to me I think I'm in eighth grade, ninth grade, somewhere around in there and he was saying to me he's like son, he goes. I just want you to know that. You know you're coming into the world now where you know drugs are going to be a part of you. You know alcohol is going to start showing up in your life a little bit. You know, I know what's going on. And he says I'm not a good representation of alcohol, that's what You've seen me drink. I'm out there on the golf course, I'm having drinks and all that kind of stuff. But I said, buddy, if I ever catch you doing drugs, I'll beat the living shit out of you. Okay, and I was like a normal, okay, well, whatever, yeah, you know, okay, dad, sure, yeah, being the tough guy type of thing, yeah, well, it was three days later.

Kori:

I was milking with him the side this way, and three on the side, okay, okay, and so we go off to the side and a cow um, we're putting the, putting the milker on, and a cow kicks the milker off and that kind of irritates him, whatever. So he stands underneath there and holds it a little bit and pretty soon she, he hits him, she hits him again the wrist there, and so he grabs the. We call it a hook and it used to kind of go up and here and then go on the cow's back and and so if they kick, it would kind of pull them down so it could prevent them from kicking. We put the hook on and pretty soon she kicks again and the hook falls on them. And so then he gets a little bit, makes it a little tighter, throws it back on there, and this time then she kicks again and it falls off and hits him in the head.

Kori:

Oh God, well, she kicks again and it falls off and hits him in the head. Oh god, well, this pissed him off, okay, and he reared back and he hit her right in the stomach and dropped the cow right to the ground. Wow, knocked their air out of the cow. Wow, I was just like well, I don't know if my dad's serious about beating the shit out of me, but I'm not going to take the risk because he just knocked a 1500 pound cow to the ground and I'm like okay, so that's where I'm very thankful it worked.

Kori:

I've stayed away from it. I've never, I've never attempted any of that type of stuff. I just knew that it wasn't yeah, wasn't in my game.

David:

So would you? Would you say this? This thought just came to my mind. So alcohol was your thing? Yeah, right, would you say. And because? And a friend just posted something that I'm actually going to share, because it's a pretty powerful writing about societal view on alcohol as a substance compared to all other substances. Right, like, it's socially accepted, it's okay, it's actually encouraged to drink, whereas, oh, if someone's done meth, well, they're a druggie, they're a bad person. Right, would you say, that's fair well, I don't think there's.

Kori:

I don't, I don't think it's necessarily fair, I think it's just.

Kori:

This is the part where I guess I struggle with labels okay yeah so you're labeling people yeah, all right even I don't even like the word alcoholic, because all I can say is, if I say, well, david, you're an alcoholic, well, that gives you the ability to go get drunk. Then, well, you're a drug addict? Well, that gives you the ability to go do drugs. And again, because, oh, it's not my fault, like, where's the accountability for yourself and making the choice that you do? You know, and that's the piece that I don't like about. So is it fair, the piece that I don't like about it. So is it fair?

Kori:

I think and this probably irritates some people, but you know, I look at it of like the people that say that it's, it's socially acceptable they want it to be because they like it, and and drugs and stuff. You know, I think there's realms out there where cocaine is okay, where meth is fine, where all that stuff is not a big deal. You know, you've seen it in movies and different stuff, but I know it's a reality too, from people that I've heard. You know I just listened to a podcast with Charlie Sheen talking about cocaine and how much he had it and consumed, and you know it was all okay.

Kori:

So you know, I think there's definitely that piece of where. You know. I think there's both sides of it. I think there's both sides of it. Alcohol is if you and I sat down, went to lunch at the TAV, had a beer, whatever, and then went home and stuff like that no beef right, no big deal. It's always what happens after. And so I look at it of like there's millions of people around there that can go have a beer or whatever, and it just one to go have a glass of wine, and it's just one, it's no big deal, and that's that's great, that's okay, that's what you do. But I think the reality of that it's still a substance that's alternating in your brain. What's the point? Why can't you have just a cup of coffee? Yeah, why is it so socially acceptable to have a substance that can manipulate your brain versus not? And so that's where I think it's just a matter of taking a reflection within, of going yeah, okay, what is the big deal? You've said?

David:

that a lot and I really appreciate it. You know the kind of asking yourself what's the need, and that's a lot of recovery, isn't it? Or you know changing your relationship. Whatever you want to look at it is really assessing. Why is it that I needed that mind mood altering substance? You know what was the need for it.

Kori:

Yeah, and that's really how I was able to pull myself out of it, because every time I'd have a trigger, I would go, I would take time and I would sit down and start journaling. What is this about? Yeah, about yeah, because there's always the truth behind it. Yeah, this is not the trigger. Yeah, this is yeah. So you have to get it. You have to be open and honest, and that's why you know the same what the saying is stop fucking lying you know, you got to stop lying to yourself.

Kori:

You've got to stop the stories that you're selling yourself and go figure out what is behind it.

David:

Keep you on that snowball right. Keep that snowball growing. It starts to shrink. Nope, I'm going to keep it going. Keep adding nonsense to it, absolutely. Let's go ahead and ask the second one. Okay, you realized if there was a moment or a period of time you realized alcohol wasn't serving you anymore, and how did you act on that realization? I'm going to add because this is where people can learn because you did things a little different and I thought it was really cool. It's a so you could talk about you know however much you want to about that. So what was that moment or period of time? You went, yeah, I've got it, I've got to stop this shit, or I've got to change my relationship. And then, kind of the how'd you do it?

Kori:

yeah so I can't really say that. There was like one moment for me. I just knew that I needed to. I was questioning a lot of things. I was questioning myself and the consumption that I was doing, and I was questioning on why was I continuing to do it and what was the meaning, you know, and all that kind of stuff and like was questioning on why was I continuing to do it and what was the meaning, you know, and all that kind of stuff and like you know, is this time for me to make a change? You know?

David:

so, was it? Was it because of physical hangovers or behaviors, or repeated things happening?

Kori:

I think what was causing you to question it because I was just kind of tired to live in the life. Okay it, just it felt like a lie because it was okay you know what I mean.

David:

So you felt like you were living a life that you shouldn't be living yeah, I have no reason to be drinking a fifth of vodka every day.

Kori:

I had absolutely no reason. I got a great business, I had a great wife, I had a great kid, I had all this stuff. What is the point of this? Right? That's what I was thinking to myself why, why am I doing this, you know? And so that was the big piece of it, but I was still ashamed of it. I mean, it was just the reality of it.

David:

And this all during this period of time. This is just you. Are you talking to anyone?

Kori:

No, Are you sharing anything with?

David:

anyone, your dad, your wife? No, so this is all you, this is all me, not uncommon? No, especially with alcohol. Yep, especially with alcohol. Well, because, it's socially yeah, and you don't end up in jail and it's not illegal and it's you can keep it in your house.

Kori:

But so you, this was all you alone, with all me, myself, and I, yeah and so I finally you know it was kind of ironic, but you know, I finally I was flipping through Facebook. I was, I had quit drinking about nine days previous, okay, so I was in a clear-headed mind, but I always felt like I never. I always knew I could go back. Yeah, okay, but I also I wanted to be a social drinker. Yeah, yeah, okay, but I also I wanted to be a social drinker. I wanted to be a person that could just go have a beer and go home. Yeah, that's really who I wanted to be, because I didn't want to be one of those weirdos. Yeah, well, now I'm a weirdo, but anyway, yeah, you know, but that was one of the big things.

Kori:

So I was flipping through facebook and I came across mark mark jennison, when I am a comeback. I listened to him. He hit me in every word that I can imagine. I was just like what the heck? And so I I booked an appointment and talked to him because I wanted it to be private. I didn't want it to be known.

David:

Yeah.

Kori:

Again, I was ashamed of myself. I didn't like all that stuff. I wanted to just go solve this problem before it really got out of hand even more right. And so that's where I went ahead and did it, signed up with him. Um, it was all virtual, so I could do it where I needed to and, um, you know, when was about what year?

David:

you remember when?

Kori:

was, it was. So it's been six and a half years ago. So what's that? 2019? Okay, yeah, so pre-covid, yep, pre-covid yeah, it was in 2019.

David:

There's you know economy was good a lot ofVID. Yeah, it was In 2019, there was, you know, economy was good. A lot of things were pretty good. Everything was positive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, go on.

Kori:

So, anyway, so I just I set it up with him and went through the process and then started going and really dove in on myself, because that's what it was about. It was about, you know, trying to reflect back on. Okay, well, let's get you to this point and I realized that my confidence in myself was zero, like I'm thinking, jesus is crazy, but I literally had no confidence in myself. So I had to start working on. Well, what does that mean, you know, and how do I get back to that?

David:

how does he working with mark?

Kori:

yep. For those who don't know, look it up.

David:

I am the comeback. I've watched a lot of his videos. He specifically is geared toward business owners and primarily alcohol.

Kori:

Yeah, primary alcohol and stuff.

David:

But I'm guessing he wouldn't turn down someone. No, no.

Kori:

He's not going to turn down anybody, but it's primarily it's driven people, because he's one of the most driven persons I've ever seen.

David:

Yes, if you watch his videos you're like whoa, this guy's a lot, but he's driven, he's in your the most driven person I've ever seen he is. If you watch his videos, you're like whoa, this guy's a lot, but he's driven, he's in your face kind of. But this really spoke to you.

Kori:

Oh, it spoke to me big time and then every time, but I was still a chicken Going through the process we had. You know this was before Zoom.

David:

He started peeling your onion.

Kori:

Oh, big time yeah, because that was, oh, massively, because it had, and that's where he has this unique gift of being able to say it to you in a way that it just hits home every time and even though how so Describe what? I've struggled with trying to describe it, but it's like every time I would attend one of the Zoom meetings at the time or actually it was a Facebook, it was almost like a Facebook Live thing or something that he was doing to begin with, because that was before zoom was such a big deal, and then we transitioned into zoom and stuff, but you would go and you would listen and I think this is part of it too of like. This is where, when you try to do it yourself, it can be hampering, because you're isolating yourself and you're thinking you're the only one in the world that has.

Kori:

We can tell it, it sounds a lot of stars, yeah, and so all of a sudden I'm on this video with 50 other guys. Okay.

David:

Because he did, he grew pretty quickly he spoke to a lot of people.

Kori:

Yeah, in the high achieving type of world, because it's.

David:

Guys that have businesses, guys that have families, guys that have money but are still struggling with alcohol.

Kori:

Sure, and the bigger piece is that guys that aren't victims I I know that may ruffle some feathers, but it's like I'm not a victim of this. I created this myself.

David:

I'm holding myself, you're not talking about a victim of abuse or no, but you're saying guys that say, yeah, I know I've done this and I need to address it exactly. That's good yeah, yeah.

Kori:

So that's really where it came for me of really being able to, so he would speak to me and all that kind of stuff, but I still. I was in the program for four months before I told my wife.

David:

Really yeah.

Kori:

Wow.

David:

I shouldn't be surprised, but wow, so yeah.

Kori:

Isn't that interesting, In fact.

David:

I, in fact I did you tell anyone, no, no, because I still was like I said I, I had to grow through it. Do you think you were struggling with whether you were going to return to drinking and you were afraid?

Kori:

maybe no, I just, I just felt guilty, even having like I wouldn't have felt this.

David:

This is what you're.

Kori:

I wouldn't have done this yeah, because I felt guilty about you know that this was an issue to me. What?

David:

was when you, when you did tell her what was the reaction.

Kori:

Oh, it was, it was, it was great, but it was so funny Cause I, I again I lied to get her there. So in some aspects so Mark did an experience is what he called it.

David:

Yeah, and so.

Kori:

I flew back to Wisconsin to go to this experience. And my wife said I said, well, it was a business trip. And she said, well, I want to come. And I said okay. So she came with me. And there's a certain point in the middle of the experience that you had to make a phone call. Well, I didn't have to make a phone call, I walked down to the store and I sat down and I told her the truth.

Kori:

Wow, what was her reaction? You know it wasn't again. This is the stories that we tell ourselves, how bad it's going to be. And she just opened her arms. She just was like I'm here for you, do you think she had some?

David:

relief.

Kori:

I don't know for sure on that, because I mean, obviously it had been four months since I drank and I was changing, and she knew I was changing, she, she knew something was going on okay and that's what she said.

Kori:

She goes. I knew something was up, but I didn't know what, and so I mean I think that's just kind of the whole thing. That's where then, when I went to the experience the first time, that's when everything just wide open for me then, a reality of like, okay, this, this is not, I don't need to be ashamed of this anymore, I don't need to feel guilty anymore.

David:

When did you know you were? You were done.

Kori:

Drinking? Yeah, oh, pretty much. Then I mean the experience. The experience, yeah, yeah, I mean when I say today, what do you think it was about it? I just finally dealt with all the stuff that was holding me back. Yeah, I literally dealt with it. And the thing is, is that we talked about peeling the onion? I finally got to the core of it enough, I didn't need to peel anymore. There's other people I know. They just got to keep peeling and peeling and you just get into that cycle. So I was like, no, no, I'm good. Now I'm, I'm happy with the choice that I've made. I'm happy with the person that I'm becoming and I'm ready to just go live life now and go change what it was yes, you're not saying I'm not going to continue to improve.

David:

I'm going to, certainly, because I know you, but I'm not going to continue to. You know, I don't know dig more. You know I'm just going to go forward right.

Kori:

I think there's a point where you know if you're digging forward, if you're digging more, you're digging for more than negative that you did. So I was like, look, I'm, I'm done digging, I I can't do anything about the past. I've heard you say this we need to. Nothing we can do about the past. We can only do about what we do today, for you know. And so that's where I went to Just like, nope, I'm going to go on and carry on now and do I continue to grow? Absolutely, I'd never say that I'm not changing or growing on a continued basis. We have great talks right.

Kori:

Yeah, and I will always be that way, because that's part of my drivenness. I don't want to just sit back and you know, just chill Stale yeah.

David:

Boring it gets a little. I listen to people when they say they're retired. I actually had a good talk with Myron Linder. Yeah, he's retired and he says I'm busy. You know I'm not. I hear people who retire and then just go home and die. I'm like whoa, I don't want that to happen. Yeah, exactly, all that constant. I think you and I agree that that constant forward movement Exactly, striving for something, doing something Exactly, and it can always evolve and change. One more of these questions, okay, and I think I'm going to ask this last one because I want the world to hear kind of your view on this. So if someone's listening out there and this will be out there for the whole world for the rest of time now If someone's listening to this and is questioning their own relationship with alcohol or drugs or whatever substance, right, what piece of encouragement or wisdom would you want to offer them? This is your time to use the bully pulpit, right? Sure?

Kori:

Well, I think honestly, I think this is you know, it's kind of be a little cliche in a sense, but you're not alone Number one, you're just not alone, and the stories that you keep telling yourself I can 100% relate to. If you really be open and honest with me right now and sit down and tell me the stories of what you want to say, I will be able to match exactly where you are. And I think that's where we get to a lot of stuff. I mean because I look at addiction as a whole, even though I don't necessarily like the word, but in all facets of it, of everything that somebody, I mean, I think you can be addicted to the gym, sure, right, like there's certain levels of stuff that can go down to that supposedly it's healthy but it really isn't in a sense. So you know, I think when you get to that point in your life and you really you're questioning it, if you're questioning it, then stop questioning it and start answering the question yeah Right, there's no more points and just carrying on. This is the time for you that something is telling you Something in the universe God, whatever you want to say, is telling you to take a look in the mirror and address what's going on in your life, because it's only going to be better.

Kori:

On the other side and that's the other part about it, because this was the fear that I had was, well, what happens when I quit? Yeah, yeah, what's my life going to be like? Well, I'm sitting here six and a half years later, going. Oh, thank god, right, because I I am so free, yeah, like I'm free from the pains that I was having, the internal struggles that I was going on. You know, I've been through some massive transitions in my life over the last three years and I'm still here, still going. You know, I understand how to deal with depression now, like I've never been before. I deal with it like I do. It doesn't mean it stops tomorrow, yeah, but I'm dealing with it.

Kori:

There's just so many things that come out of it to where, if you have that call right now that you're saying, hey, there's, there's something that's nudging me, it's saying that I need to take a look at something, then just listen to it, yeah, and figure out what it is for you that that means. And if you want to come talk to me, then come talk to me. I mean, I'm not going to be there's, I'm not. I will not shame somebody else for the situations that they're in. I've had some massively deep conversations and different stuff with different guys out there. I mainly have dealt with men. I haven't dealt with women. Sure, sure, that's just nothing against that.

David:

No, no, no.

Kori:

But I just feel like it's better that I don't go down that path for myself, and so but that's where it is Like open yourself up.

David:

Go find the person that you feel the safest with and remember that the stories you think of how bad it's is so unique that I can't tell someone. But you also know that you need to make a change. From my counseling days, my counselor days, people who don't have a drinking problem don't question their drinking, right, right, someone who's a social drinker. They're not every night, or once a week or twice. They're not going. Maybe I should slow down. So if someone's in that state, right, maybe take a look at that. And what I hear you saying is is you're not alone. And that's powerful words, because I remember that isolation, right. And I also remember when I opened up, like I do it in my life today, I've done it with you. I've sent, like I do it in my life today, I've done it with you. I've sent texts like I'm struggling and I just want to get that out there. Just doing that, it's a little bit of a weight lifted.

Kori:

So that's why I say you got to open up on stuff, and we as men are not really taught to do that.

David:

No, yeah, and that was the other thing I was going to say is I think we have a lot of men out there who just stay, stay here, I'm not going to talk about it, I'm not going to share about it, I'm damn sure. I'm going to talk about feelings and I think it's garbage, I think it, I think it really hurts men in some bigger ways than we realize, as far as, like you know, being whole fathers, being whole husbands, being whole community members. Like I might be more on the touchy, feely side, but I spent a lot of years on the side of not talking about feelings, just being tough, just pushing through, and that didn't serve me well. That kept me drinking, kept me using Right.

Kori:

Yeah, and I think it's just a matter of that's where the internal confidence of yourself comes out.

David:

Yeah.

Kori:

Like, if you feel confident enough of sitting down and having this conversation, then you can do it Right. And I think the whole stigma too, that you have to quit I mean there are certain people that maybe that is the case, yeah, but I know for a fact myself that I can sit down and I have NA beers, I have those type of things. They don't trigger me All of a sudden. The taste of it doesn't come up to where I'm like oh man, I just need to go get hammered.

Kori:

That's where I think we can step away from that too, and I think the other thing is that the NA world is getting huge. It's really big. I love mocktails and they're pretty doggone tasty, so you know there is an option.

David:

You've said it in a couple ways and I think you and I agree. For me, I don't feel like I'm fighting a battle. I don't feel like I'm in a war against my addiction, my disease, right, and I put that in. This is just me, that, like, I love my life, I enjoy living my life. I call myself a person in recovery, but I also don't use what, and it's not just about stigmatizing language, it's about words. Words matter, especially the ones we're telling ourself. So personally, in the, in the realm of the world, I don't describe myself as an addict or an alcoholic, and it's not a hit on my friends who choose to do that. But for me, I'm a human living in the world right, and I'm moving forward. Now, if I choose to go to a 12-step group and in that realm, I might do it there, but outside of that I don't.

David:

I use positive language. I don't keep myself separated from the rest of the world by keeping myself in this box. Right Me versus them, yeah, right, like. Certainly you and I could share stories about when we drank and the stupid shit we did that maybe others would go God, that was dumb, why would you do that? And that's they can't relate to that. I think there is some power to that, but does that make sense? Yeah, like totally this, I'm, I'm, I'm a human, I'm a neighbor to my neighbor. We're all in this together, but I don't feel like I'm fighting a war against some internal demon that could just come out at any time no that's I'm gone, so far removed from that yeah, and that's really where I that's, I guess, where I struggle with the word recovery to some extent.

Kori:

When are we done recovering when? When it it's like, you know, if, if, and and I've, I've struggled with this too, with it being called a disease too, because I'm, like I sure I I agree with that disease can happen from over consuming. There's no doubt, yeah, but I still look at it as a choice that I picked up the booze. Now, if we're in the middle of it, you know, like we've talked about before you know different store and beers into it.

Kori:

It's probably a little harder to say no, I'm not going to have another yeah but you know, and it's something growing, I, I look at a disease, that something is kind of growing into me or created with inside of me and stuff, and so I just look at that as different too, of like, no, I, I'm, I'm doing this, yeah, I'm making the choice to do this, I'm holding my. This is what I'm doing, that's so. That piece of it is definitely there and so I just, yeah, I just I. I look at all those words. That's why I say I don't, I don't like labels, I don't want to have to be a part of them, because you are still a human, you're still david yeah, you're not david the guy in recovery, you're david, you're dr david.

David:

Yeah, yeah, um, and we'll shift gears and I'm going to close this up with your opportunity, if you thought I wanted to ask me a question or two. But this conversation, my view on the word powerlessness and you and I have talked about this, I think, but you know so prior to me having any knowledge, right prior to me having counseling or treatment or reading anything about how to change my relationship with substances and I was in active use that was pretty powerless. I didn't know any different. My view is the second that I got some knowledge that I could do things different. I got my power back. That's what it's about. I'm no longer powerless. I'm not powerless over the world or powerless. No, I have a say and I have a choice right in my life and how it goes moving forward, and I think you and I agree on that realm, right? Yep?

Kori:

Yeah, absolutely. I did not believe that you're powerless to this at all. No, in the middle of use. Yeah, for sure, okay, I could see that you are weaker, yeah, but you still have the power to make the choice to have a beer. You still even.

Kori:

you know you're the parts that I remember about drinking one beer doesn't make it all of a sudden where I'm just completely loaded right. So I still have the choice to say, no, I'm not going to do it. So again, if you're using that substance, if that is more importantly, you have to have that. If there's a reason behind that, yeah, it's, it's. That's the piece that I think we all forget about. There's really an internal mental type of thing that's behind that that is giving you that reason of why you need that substance to be able to alter you so that you can feel, okay, yeah, well don't you just want to feel okay, yeah, so powerless definitely or feel not okay and and just and deal with it.

Kori:

Yeah, yeah, but walk through it, walk through it. Yeah, feel okay about walking through it. This is a big thing. Talk about being powerful. Yeah, you get some of the most heavy stuff going into it and you're taking every day and stepping and stepping and stepping and one day maybe a little bit bigger step and I I don't necessarily think I ever go backwards. I just stop and then it's like okay, now I got to get going again, but I'm not going backwards. I just stop for the time being and maybe I'm sitting there for a day or two. I'm getting my ambition and now I'm going to walk again.

David:

That's good, okay, okay. I know we texted back and forth and you're like I don't know, but maybe you came up with something. What's a question you've always wanted to ask me?

Kori:

man, I just this is really tough because it's like this is also kind of the beauty of our relationship. We know each other. I'm honest with you, like, and and if I had a question, I'd ask you yeah, I mean.

Kori:

So it's not like I'm I'm hiding anything, so I don't necessarily, you know, I, I, I honestly can't think of one thing that I would need to ask you right at the moment, and I've had weeks to think of this too. This isn't just because it was sprung out, because I've watched your shows and I knew this was coming, yeah, and I just can't well, maybe, maybe, this will help.

David:

What? What do you think would be good for the world to know about me? Or something that you value, that you've heard me say?

Kori:

Man, that's a loaded question too, because I mean, you have a lot of things that you say to people and you say just because you're confident in who you are and what you do, and it's it's just an honor to be there with it to hear it. You know it's like there are so many things like that. You know there's not, there's not, one way to fix this problem no there's not one way to fix it, I'm, I'm done with that.

Kori:

If anybody, I will battle you to that one on that part, because I know 100% and I don't care if somebody says well, I just went cold, turkey Great.

David:

Rock on yeah.

Kori:

It happens, that's great. If that's what you wanted to do, then that's great, and you never want to talk about going into the peace and freedom that I feel I have. That you may not have, that's fine too. But if you feel you have it, great because I don't care, and I just think that what you do, as far as being able to relate to so many people and so many different things, and that you're not you know, you're not just well, it has to be this or it has to be this, and you're open to hearing all sorts of different stuff. I try. You may not agree with it, no yeah, but you're open to hearing it, and I think that that's something that we, as men, definitely need to be aware of, and we and you're not, you're not afraid to say it either. You're not afraid to say the other stuff that may somebody, may irritate somebody else, not because you want to be a jackass, but just because you know it needs to be said.

David:

I think in our world right now especially, we need to. You know, if I'm putting it simply, we need to learn how to be kind to each other. Again, you know, like you and I can, I have full faith that you and I could have a conversation about anything and completely disagree, and we're still going to be friends tomorrow. Yeah, my friend, Steven DePiroiro, who moved, he's in spokane now, he anyway, uh, he's one of my best friends in the world and and him and I have had some heated conversations, right, yeah, but then at the end of that conversation, it's okay. When are we going to go right? Yeah, you know, and I, we need more of that in society and unfortunately, social media has.

David:

If I were to look at one thing that has really killed that in a lot of ways, it is social media. It's the ability for any human to get behind a screen and just type shit that they would never, never say to a person face to face, where they can see how that makes them feel, see the impact it has on them. And then it just goes to my life as a whole. I've lived a pretty interesting life and I've seen and done a lot of things. I've been involved in things that like. So when I look at life, I look at it through a filter of you know if I use the word empathy or just you know, like open mindedness and so yeah.

Kori:

Well, I think there's a lot to be said about being black and white. And then there's a lot to be said about, you know, understanding where that gray filter needs to come into play. And you know, I think there's. We can stand for what we believe, but at the same time, you know we're all still here, we all do. We don't all have the answers, yeah.

David:

Yeah, you know I can, I can. I'm pretty black and white of some things for sure. Ask my son. He'll tell you like, oh my God, my dad's like blah, blah, blah, you know, but I'm also, you know, I, being a father and a grandfather, has helped me to to see that I'm not always right. Yep, you know that. Um, people, people need to experience things in the way they need to experience it, and and I don't always have to have that figured out for them- Yep, absolutely.

Kori:

Yeah, I tell you guys, go read his book.

David:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Kori:

I'm not, I'm just, this is just being a plug for me. But go read his book, oh yeah, yeah, I'm not, I'm just. It's just being a plug for me. But go read his book. It's pretty powerful. It's yeah, it's a crazy. I didn't realize how crazy of a life you had. I mean it's, it was pretty pretty crazy.

David:

Yeah Well, this has been great. Yes, it has Awesome. Okay, friends, that's it for this episode of Deep Dive with Dr D. Until next time.