What Happens When We Truly See People (w/guest Cathie Day)

Start with a face you know at the farmers market, a teenager in an open doorway, a neighbor at a stoplight. That’s where community begins—where people feel seen, not sorted. We sat down with our longtime friend and local force, Cathie Day—grandmother, educator, school board member, nonprofit founder, and reserve police officer—to explore how empathy turns into action and why small, consistent gestures change the arc of a town.

Cathie shares how teaching is more than a job; it’s a relationship engine. She talks candidly about alternative education, credit-deficient students, and the way safety and trust unlock learning. We go back to the early days of our recovery community organization that became Peers Rising, tracing the wins and the unfinished work. The big gap she names is one you can feel in every district: youth treatment access and a real reentry plan. Without a public, school-connected recovery path, teens return to the same triggers. Kathy outlines what needs to exist—visible supports, social scaffolding, and language that swaps blame for belonging.

Her law enforcement training brings nuance to public safety. Through realistic scenarios, she practices responding with context, not assumptions, showing how shared humanity makes for smarter, safer choices. Along the way we talk grandparenting as a stabilizing force, the power of reading to build empathy, and how visible community hubs—like teen centers and recovery spaces—signal that help is here and people matter. For anyone overwhelmed or doubting themselves, Kathy offers a crisp plan: prioritize by values, slow down, and take the next indicated step. Ask for help; keep asking. Someone will answer.

If this conversation sparks something in you, subscribe, share it with a friend who cares about youth, recovery, and real community, and leave a review to help others find it. Then tell us: what’s one thing you’ll do in your twenty square feet this week?

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Transcript

Warm Welcome And Housekeeping

SPEAKER_04 0:08

Um, so welcome to Deep Dive with Dr. D. Uh, glad everyone's here. I have my good friend Kathy Day with me today. This is gonna be fun. I've created the normal set of questions. So like, follow, do all that stuff. Um, I usually do my shameless plug for my book. I kind of just did that. Uh, you can buy it wherever you buy books locally. You can get uh grit over shame at Pearl Street Books or at Gerald's locally online, Gerald's.com. I've got this down to an art form. And then Amazon paperback ebook and an audiobook on Audible with me narrating it. There it is. Okay, here we go. Um, welcome to the show. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

I'm so thanks for being willing.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

I love it as this has transpired. Uh, you know, I I'll think of people and I'm like, oh, I want to have that person on, and you for sure. Um, this is gonna be a good episode um to talk about, you know, our journey as friends. You as a human.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

You're one of my favorite people in the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

We've known each other a long time. And because we've known each other and I love you, that's the reason that I'm giving up my Sunday morning, which is usually my sacred dog.

SPEAKER_04 1:22

Because I just asked you.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

You just asked me, and I'm like, yeah. So I'm here on Sunday morning because of our relationship, and I do appreciate the invitation as well.

Friendship, Community, And Seeing People

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Yeah. And you know, Tyler, we were talking about you know, Tyler earlier. He has been one, and I hope he hears this, you know, to say, Dad, you should try this, you should try this. So it's it's part of why I resisted TikTok, but then we kind of blew up on TikTok in some ways. Daisy actually did, now the memory of Daisy. Yes. Um, and then he's like, You should do a podcast. No, and I've always and then you should have guests. And so he was my first guest. And so, son, if you're listening, I'm having guests, and it's been really cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Oh, it's great. I think having conversations like this is one of the things that makes our community stronger, and the more we have, the better. Yeah, because that's what it's all about. You gotta see people.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

I'm with you. Yeah, yeah. I think of my friend Henry, you know, he's he's doing that in his own way at the radio station.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

I'm super excited about that.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

Um, oh God, I just lost his name.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

He was principal educator. Oh, Jesus. No, there's a lot of principal at Lincoln. Oh, Johnny. Johnny Grabb! Young.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_04 2:33

Um he does this kind of work too, and I and I agree with you that the more we get.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yeah, when he does his walks, yeah. When he walks, yeah. No, I think that that's yeah. We more of that. Some of my favorite times are the times I spend at the farmers market. Talking to people I've never met before, talking to people I have met before, yeah. Um, listening to people, following up on conversations that we had the week before, just uh because you got to know each other to have a community.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

And doing it like this is online, people can just listen to this, but outside of a keyboard, right? Okay where we can see and understand and feel absolutely yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

So yeah, I don't count the online conversations as actual conversations to build relationships. They're important in their connections making works. But I think unless you you can look that person in the eye, you can see them, you can look at you know how they're reacting and responding to you. I don't think that there's a replacement for that.

Kathy’s Self-Introduction And Values

SPEAKER_04 3:26

No, there's not. No, it's a whole different medium. Okay, this is bugging me. What Alexa, clear notifications. I don't know why. I don't even know if anyone ever notices, probably not, but it's doing its blinking thing. It's just I can see it in my peripheral random shit that I worry about. So let's do this. And this is most guests don't know I do this, so this is kind of off the cuff. Introduce yourself to the world that doesn't know Kathy Day. Who are you? What do you do? What do you love?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:56

The floor is yours.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Well, I will I would talk about the most important thing um about myself, which is that I'm a grandmother. And uh because my family is really my priority if I had to like layer my life as a sandwich. Um and so I'm a grandmother, I'm a teacher, and I think that that that really is what forms everything that I do, is my my love for my family, my love for young people because they're they're really what uh fulfills me. They energize me. They're exhausting on one hand, but they energize me on the other hand. And I usually take things that happen to me at school, and then I carry those with me, and I think about what did I learn, what was that experience like that day with those kids, and then how can I carry that into some actionable um you know, I don't know, event, um something that I can do, something that I can say uh in order to make the world a better place. I just that's that's really where I come from. Yeah um as you know, as far as the things that I want to do to make my life matter, as far as just like what I like to do for fun, and other the more frivolous side of life. Um I like to take risks, I like to do things that are a tiny bit dangerous because then I feel I feel more alive when I do those kinds of things. Um horseback riding, motorcycle riding, yeah. Um like to learn as much as I can. Um learning and loving, I think your brain has infinite capacity.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

So grandmother that came right out of the gate.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

That's but very that's my very first if if if I ever wanted to be known as anything, I would want to be known as a good grandmother.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

Yeah, grandmother and it's the most important thing. Yeah, I just sent a message to grandson Anthony. I call him grandson number one and number two. There's no no value to that, that's just the order, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Well, except I wouldn't want to be number two.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

I mean, there's no event. It's absolutely amazing. But I just set up you know a dinner date because being a grandfather is it's huge. I say, you know, being a father has been my most important role in life, but as we age and transition, now, you know, with Anthony and Alark, being a grandfather is the most important role. And it's a it's a it's a really fun role, it's a really meaningful role as I've watched you with your journey three, like wow I know it's crazy. Um it's it's and it's a I think it's a really important role in family systems, very important, right? Yes, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

I think I think the reason it's so important too is because you're yes, you're supporting Anthony. Is it Alaric or Alaric? Alaric. Alaric. You're supporting them, but you are just as much than you're supporting uh Tyler. Tyler, right? And their moms, yeah, and their moms, right? Because you're there. Um you know, you're you're you're you're like an additional parent, really. And you know, that parenting is so important. And I think that we don't often have any we have no leadership about parenting. We sometimes we have no role models, right? So you're you're able to provide that.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Um, you know, there's no like how do you learn how to parent? How do you other than just watching the world? You know, there every once in a while there's parenting classes offered, but it's just one of those crazy things to me when it's the most important thing we do, but nobody ever really teaches you how to do it.

SPEAKER_04 7:24

And there is no handbook, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

No, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 7:26

And so you look at the baby and then learn time watching.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

And I think a lot of us do, like you'll you only go with what you don't want to do, like, oh hell no, I'm not doing what my parents do. Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

You know, right, or I want to do what my parents.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

But that's only if you have been raised seeing other good parents, right? So it's it's kind of a crazy thing when you think about it. How we learn how to do it.

Grandparenting’s Role In Family Systems

SPEAKER_04 7:49

Um interesting.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

You're a great grandpa, I can tell just by watching all the things that you post and the way that you talk about them.

SPEAKER_04 7:56

Yeah, they're they're fun. They're and they're I love how they're both their very unique selves. Yeah, it is. Uh so uh work life professionally, tell the world about you because you do a lot.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

I do. Um, and I would say, you know, it's it's funny when you say work because I really feel like I'm a teacher, obviously, um, that school, when you say school, to me that's not work. And so when I get I have gotten to get up and go, you know, been lucky enough to get to get up and go to school um for decades. And it never feels it's hard and I'm tired sometimes. Um but it has never felt to me like a job, necessarily or work. And so um hugely rewarding. The other things that I'm involved in are they all volunteer. So I I also don't really look at those as work either because they're fulfilling. Yeah, and then I choose that because those are the things that that energize me. Um running a nonprofit um that that helps cancer patients. My work with law enforcement has been it's been one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. I can talk about you know more about that. Um and then my work, of course, uh in the the school board is just where my I mean my heart lies with the Ellensburg community, yeah, with the children of the Ellensburg community, with the students um and in particular with the schools um because they're so important to everything else that we want to do.

SPEAKER_04 9:33

Um that's where we met, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

We met, yeah. Yeah, we met because we were, I think we met working on um the recovery high school. The recovery high school with Jeff. And yeah, right. Well we you we rolled you into that, but then we started um working up at the alternative high school. Remember because I called you because I knew that you were. Oh, Jesus, you did. That's right, you did family.

SPEAKER_04 9:56

When it was still on campus, yes, a soup sandwich.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

And I was like, we gotta get somebody up here that's right.

SPEAKER_04 10:02

I remember the call.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yes, because the I I could tell when I went up there, I was like, these people aren't seeing these kids. For they're not seeing where they've been, they're not seeing where they need to go, they're not seeing where they want to be. And I was like, David will, and we'll get him up there. And remember because you came up and you spoke and you talked about family systems, yeah, and that's how, and then we and then from there we shared and then we shared that we had some common dreams, you know, one of which was to get that recovery high school, which is still something I want to work on, which was what I was gonna um yeah, yeah, yeah, piggyback on when we talked about it.

SPEAKER_04 10:34

So 2000 Pierce Rising 13, 14, like oh, it's gotta be before that, even. Yeah. Well, because I would I earned my ma I was in my undergraduate 2009 to 2011, then I went in my master's 2011, 2012.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

So so I bet it was, because it was very shortly after I got into the library. And I I started in the library uh 2011.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yep.

Teaching As Calling, Not Work

SPEAKER_00 10:56

And I was mentoring a new teacher that was just teaching in the alternative high school program. And I and when I went up there, and that was not not to throw any of them under the bus or be critical of them, but what what when I went up there and and saw what was happening, I realized that the teachers weren't supported they didn't have support. There was zero support. And those students, the students nearest and dearest to my heart, are often the ones simply because people don't know what to do. Cast aside.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

So it's like, well, we don't know what to do, let's put them over here. Cast aside. And we don't know what to do with this kid, so let's put them over here. Put them over there. Right? The you know what I mean. Lovingly have always called them the you know, my the misfit toys. Yeah. But my my absolute favorite kids always. So that's how we met.

SPEAKER_04 11:40

So we have known each other a long time. Oh yeah. 13, 4 almost 14 years.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:44

You've always like I said, and I say this about a lot of people, but yeah, I have a lot of favorite people, but you're one of my favorite people easily because of that commonality we have about those kids. Like, no, they're not those kids, they're kids, and we need to bring them in.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

My my a conversation I had the other day, because I currently teach uh alternative high school. Um, even that name I'm not really super excited about. Um, but uh the program I'm in, many, well, all of my students are with me because they're credit deficient, or it's it's a you know dropout recovery kind of program. And they they're they quizzed me the other day, like, Miss Day, you know, like I sit with them all the time. You we gotta know who's your favorite, who are your favorite kids, right?

SPEAKER_04 12:27

And I'll like King Lear, right?

Nonprofit, School Board, And Policing

SPEAKER_00 12:31

You know, and I said, You can't, I said, I love all my kids, but I said, I'll tell you this. I said, My favorite kids to teach would be such and such group of kids. I said, but I'll tell you this. I said, My favorite kids to spend time with is it the kids I would call if the shit hit the fan. If I'm out somewhere and I need someone to save my own, or I need someone to fix something for me. I said, Wow, I'm calling you guys because you guys will get it done. And they they were like, Oh hell yeah. You know what I mean? That's interesting. Yeah, they have these kids know what life is. I mean, they know um how to walk through the world when the world's not friendly to you. Yeah, and you can't teach that to kids who have never faced adversity. And I've tried to express that to them that I you know, I'm not I'm not saying you're lucky, I'm not saying that you should be glad that these things that have happened to you have happened, but it's it's preparing you, albeit in a painful way. It's preparing you for success if you will allow that to be the case.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

Super cool. Thank you for that introduction. It's it's super cool. So lifelong educator. You don't feel like you have a job because you feel like you go to school. That's and I love it. I'm comparing it to my work on campus. I've been doing it for 13 years and I still love doing it, right? And it doesn't feel like a job. Like I get to do this, it's pretty cool. So that work, um, your work with the Gretchen Weller Foundation from the very beginning, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah, Mary Gordon, yeah, Heather Stuman and myself. Uh we founded from the beginning.

SPEAKER_04 14:01

Which those that don't know, it's a local nonprofit that supports families with a cancer diagnosis, and it's all local to Ellensburg, Kiditask County, which I really love. Um, and a great, great organization. If you don't know anything about it, just Google Gretchen Weller Foundation. Um, Gretchen and her family are just like they are.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

It's so fun watching those kids.

SPEAKER_04 14:23

So cool. And that's been an entity now for has it been a decade? It's 10 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

We have we're coming up on our 10-year fundraiser celebration in October. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

Uh it's been I loved, I've attended a few of the the uh the fundraisers, and and it's just really cool. And then your work with the school board, um, great like when you got elected, and I'm like, yeah, that let's do this. Uh and yeah, you you're a reserve officer with EPD. I I love that. Um, and all the way back to the beginning, a grandmother, yeah. Your most important role. So thank you for that. Absolutely. Um, super cool. So let's go to a question.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah, let's get started.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

Okay, you did your homework, I'm sure. I don't know. Yeah, no, good. Okay, so this is good. You've worn many hats over the years. Um, educator, school board member, res reserve police officer, and community leader. Like, I know we don't have to go far in Ellensburg to say your name. People are like, oh, I know Kathy in different roles, um, powerful leadership roles. How have those roles shaped the way you see people and service?

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Well, I think one I'm not sure that's kind of a that's kind of a chicken or the egg question. It's a hard question because I think that I've always from a very young age, and I and I wouldn't be able to tell you why, that I've felt like we are obligated to take care of each other. And that a community has the capacity to take care of everybody who is a part of it, yet we choose not to. Um and that's been something that uh but where does that come from for you? I well, I'm not really sure. That's what I'm saying. And when I read that question, I'm like, it's one of those things, it's like when people ask me why you're a teacher, you know, why you became a teacher, and the you know how things evolve. So I became a teacher because I love English and writing and books and stories.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

And was that from your family?

Meeting Story And Alternative School

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Was that from my family loves to read, you know, all these things, but then I really uh the reason I love being a teacher is because I love to interact with young people, and so you know, things evolve, and then you go back and you're like, well, what's the genesis of this? And yeah, you know, I don't know. I I love I've always worked, I've I had I got my first job when I was 11 years old, riding my bicycle to the blueberry farm, okay taking blueberries because I wanted to Woodenville.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

Oh Woodenville, yeah, oh wow, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

So I went I wanted to buy a horse that my family couldn't afford it. Okay. Um and so I that's what I started doing, and I saved in the I finally got my first horse when I was 14, and I've never lived without a horse. I always said I love them. And so um I think that's being out I I've been out in the community a lot, you know, since whatever that would be. I think I was I think I was in fifth grade, fifth or sixth grade. Um, and then watched people. My my father was remarkably helpful. He always would help people. If somebody asked him to do something, he never said no. And so that probably has very much, yeah, you know, some kind of influence. So you saw that you had that example. You know, people say just because you can doesn't mean you should. Well, that actually does apply to helping people. If you can help someone, you should, you should. And so that's always been a fundamental belief of mine. Um but like I said, it's also it's one of my deepest uh frustrations with the world is that we could um we could probably give everybody what they need, but we make our choices not to do that. Um and that's just you know, that's something that I want to as I walk through life, I take every opportunity when I'm able to to give somebody something that they might need. You know, it's it's it's difficult. And when you're, you know, if you're if you're uh I was over and ever I I end up on the west side a lot because I have family and friends over there. But if you if you pull up like I did in your nice car, I got a nice, I got a Toyota Forerunner, I'm sitting there with my designer coffee, and there's someone on the at the intersection, a person who's not able to be clean, a person who's clearly not warm, a person who's probably not healthy, and somewhere I I think that it's not a good idea for me to help them because I'm gonna somehow contribute to the their bad choices, then you're just an asshole. You don't that that's a horrible way to look at our shared humanity that some people don't deserve.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

But to have you know to have just how we just how we interact with that other human, how we look at that other human.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

But we don't even look at them as another human, we totally forget our shared humanity. So, like I mean I'm I clearly have so much more than I need. And then I have no idea why this person's making these choices. I don't know what happened to them. I don't understand any of that. Now, do I need to give them a hundred dollar bill? Probably not. But if I have in my car, if I have a hat, if I have a coat, if I have a blanket, if I have a cup of coffee or something like that, you know, the the um the lack of of empathy or the and I guess in a lot of cases the presumptuousness that if I give this person something, they're gonna misuse it.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

We make a lot of assumptions about A, B, and C is D.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Those kinds of things uh stick with me. You know, it it's really it's really hard for me sometimes to see those kinds of interactions and then know that you know, as far as a community.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

I'm gonna cut you off on purpose. What um you I don't know your childhood, and did you have that kind of struggle? No, you're not a person in recovery, and we're gonna talk about this. I have always had more than I need materially, and I'm asking that because you and that's what's always drawn me to you and wanted to know. Your why. Like I'm a person in long-term recovery. I lived a terrible childhood, blah, blah, blah. So that's kind of my why for seeing people differently. Your trajectory wasn't necessarily that. So what's your why?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

I think it's just empathy.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

But where does that come from for you?

SPEAKER_00 20:26

That's I'm not sure. Um, I think I love I've always loved animals. It's really hard for me to see anybody um suffering or in pain and not do something about it. Try to fix it. I don't know. Um, you know, I don't know if it's just brain. Your dad, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

He saw someone who needed help. Your mom?

unknown 20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Um, no.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

That's okay. And so much we're not judging, but that that you didn't get it from there. Did you have a grandparent or just yeah, interesting. No, and I and I because kids are drawn to you.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

I oh y and I'm drawn to them. I mean, you know, it's that you know, we're physically we're energized. Yeah, you know scientifically. Yeah. And so, and I also think that that's part of what you you know, what you put out is what is gonna be reflected back to you. And and I w read and have always read just everything all the time. You're a voracious reader, yeah. And that might be part of it too, because I think when you read you accumulate the experiences of the world through the stories that you read.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

And you read all genres, I'm guessing. I do. I read something somewhere, read that the more someone reads, those are those people are some of the most empathetic, understanding, knowledgeable people on walking the earth.

Valuing “Misfit” Kids And Belonging

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Yeah, because well, because you're getting the stories of the world, right? I mean you're in I and if you don't have stories or can't imagine stories, um it's interesting. We we do this is related, so I'm not going on a real tangent here, but in in law enforcement, you do a lot of training that involves what are called mock scenes. You probably know what those are. And so whoever's in the training, like there's eight of us or whatever, like a couple people, the trainer will pull you out and be like, okay, this is what I want you to do. This is gonna be a welfare check. So, David, I want you to um, you know, say that you've had this, you know, you're a single father, you've been working really hard, you're in recovery, and you just you know, you're you're six months sober, um, but you're getting evicted and you are like desperate. So someone's done a welfare check because they can hear you in your house. You're upset. Oh yeah. And so they do we do that a lot and they pull me a lot to be the actor. Um because for some reason, like if I just sit for a second and I think about that, I will literally. Um, because in my mind I'm think I just imagining good grief, you know. Here's a person doing everything right, wanting the support, reaching out, and it's just not there, you know. And so some of the guys were always like, oh my gosh, why you don't don't make it so realistic. And I'm like, well, that's what we're trying to do, right?

SPEAKER_04 23:04

But it's it's not you're able to put yourself in that place.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Right. And it's not um construed. I mean, it just it truly, you know, I just think, my God, you know, what the the things that people go through when I can hard I had to speak in an assembly at the high school once, and I made the mistake of starting it with talking about my students. As soon as I start to talk about my students and their lives and the how brave they are, I will I just well up because of it it comes from love for them, but it also just comes from like I said, the when you put yourself in their shoes and you see how hard some people try, how brave they are, how smart they are, and regardless of all of that, they're still getting their asses kicked. Um you know, someone has to help them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

Question number two. This is great. And this means a lot to me, just thinking about this time period. You were there for me during my dissertation process, and you've supported, I know so many others in the way you supported me behind the scenes. What draws you to mentoring and walking alongside people during challenging seasons of their lives?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

It's all for my own learning. It really is. I mean, it comes from, like I've already shared, my the part of my heart that wants to always help people when I can. But it's also um I get so much and I learn so much. My life is enriched when I walk beside people. And I know when you talk about mentoring, remember when we had that fabulous mentor program, which was something else I was gonna talk to you about today when we talk about tears rising. And the young woman that I mentored is just oh, she's so fantastic. And we still connect and we are able to get together. We haven't gotten together for almost a year now, but we still we connect online.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Um, and my life is just better because I have her in it now. And you know, you I there's there are a few people, but there are very few people who I would say that my life didn't get better because I have because I have them in it. And so, like when I when I had that opportunity when you were working on your dissertation, I was like, this would I've never worked really closely with somebody working on I've I've helped former students before with you know master's theses and things like that, but it was primarily just like they wanted me to look it over. Um, but with you it was really fun because we had been working on that content together. And I also was invested in wanting to destigmatize some of the way that we talk about people recovery and substance use and you know all that kind of stuff. And so and and I was like, plus I knew that plus I knew that for you it was gonna be life-changing. And if you can walk beside people when they're going through uh transformations, you you you transform too. Yeah. Um and so that was one of my I loved that. I loved our meetings in the library. Yeah. Remember your little house on fifth, and I'd come and we'd have coffee and we'd sit in that little that that little table. I loved that. Yeah. I was getting as much out of it as you were.

Empathy, Reading, And Role-Play Training

SPEAKER_04 26:04

It meant a lot to me because I was it it, you know, I would it was on my calendar and I would go and I would sit in the library, and I just I felt I've always felt really safe being vulnerable with you in the ways that I have, and people might think, well, that was really simplistic, but I was really stuck and I needed a place where I could just focus and do my work. It was also, you may or may not know this, where I got another opportunity to watch you in your in your element. And I, oh man, I I might I would go in your little office space in the library, and there were always kids.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yes. There were kids, kids in that doorway all day.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

Always. And I don't know if you know how powerful that is for those kids that felt safe to be able to come and talk to you, where you could tell their guard was down, they felt comfortable, and and we have a lot of great educators and administrators, but you're one where they would, I know they felt like they could be you with you. Right. And that that like just like like wow, that's really cool. And you know, I was the older guy sitting at a table working on my dissertation. I just want you to know that I've always felt that way with you. I've always felt safe with you. And man, we need so many more Kathy Days in the educational system who aren't just in a position of power and just like so worried about all this stuff. Stop fucking worrying about that and let's worry about these kids. And and I got to see you in your element, and that was really freaking cool. So cool.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Well, thank you for saying that. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Yeah, yeah. And and I know you're doing that, you know, down at sea level.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

And and like I said, it just it's it's really what fills my heart. Um because it isn't a um that's really who I that's just me with the kids. I love those kids. And that's where it all comes from, is is being able to see them, get to know them. Um they're just uh amazing individuals once you take the time to have that conversation and to put the other stuff aside. You know, some in education we get uh we get pretty hung up, I think, sometimes on academics. And yes, that's what we're here to do. We're here to teach kids and we kids need to learn. But until you see the kid and understand them, they're not gonna learn anyway. So you really need to back up and um have that relationship and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

I'm thinking of Tyler, you know, him and I, he's works for the ESD and he's with the Ellensburg School District, and you know, he I think of you when him and I just have small conversations about he's like, man, dad, these kids are going, you know, and thank God he's there, and thank God you're there. And and this is about you, this isn't about me, but it's made me think of the work I get to do on campus with the kids up there because different period of their life, but you know, the fact that that these kids allow us to be involved in their lives. I mean, it's it's a privilege.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Well, it's a privilege, and that's yeah when you're asking why you walk along alongside people, it because I do get as much out of it as they do it's a privilege, it's an honor. You they're gonna teach you as much as you're I mean, yeah. I would imagine there are times, there's a lot of times for me that you learn more from your students than they learn from you, right?

SPEAKER_04 29:29

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

In a big way.

SPEAKER_04 29:31

Yeah, um super cool.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

So that's that's part of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

All right, here we go. Shifting gears a bit. Question three, we're doing good. These usually last about an hour, so I think we're rolling along. I don't like have a clock or anything. Um as an original board member of the recovery community organization that I started, KCRCO, which is now Pears Rising, what did you hope the work would become? Because Kathy was was one of the original board members. We met in the house over on fifth. Um, so what did you hope the work would become and what does it mean to you now to see it where it is now?

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Well, my hope was that it would be a catalyst, a community catalyst to help um bring the the issues in our community surrounding substance use disorder to the front, destigmatize as much as possible, and then build supports. Um and it's done all of that. It's and it's continuing to do all that. Yep. Um, and the steps I would hold as far as it grows and evolves, you know, like we were I've inserted a few things as we've been talking, would be that we we must have more treatment. Um and we need more treatment for young people, and then we need a recovery element um in the education system because we still don't have any re-entry or any we have no way to embrace the the kids that are able to go out and get treatment when they come back, nothing has changed. Like there's no we don't do anything, which is just thrusting them right back into the scene. That's just absurd.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

And then we're mad at the kid that they're not successful, right? Yeah, yeah.

Mentorship, Libraries, And Safety

SPEAKER_00 31:10

How do you teach a young person you're gonna need a new group of friends, right? Yeah, hardest thing ever. Um, how do you teach them that how do you help them with that? How do you support them with that? You know, how how do you make sure that when they come back and they're trying to be uh successful, successful and take opportunities and leave some of those things behind? How do you support that and do that for them? And we have pieces like what Tyler does, but we don't have anything, you know, it it needs to be public and formal and seen in order to be acknowledged, I I feel in some cases as you know, valid. So when you don't have a program for something, when there's no public-facing program, it means that the community doesn't see the validity.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Um in that and I don't like it. And and that's why when you know, now that we've got peers rising, it's there, it's public. People go there. 5019s is 5019s is amazing, right? Yeah, it's a support, yeah. Um, and you know, you those that's just been huge for our community. So and then and I'm hoping that'll be the we'll be able to build on that and get more programs.

SPEAKER_04 32:10

Yeah. Did you think way back when we were in 2019 when it was you, me, Brett's. Um I was just thinking about him uh this morning, he was the preacher at Katrina's church, Derek.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Yeah, Derek, and then Pam, and then Pam rolled in for quite a while once we were. Oh no, I it in my mind I knew that it was that the time was right.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Um, but I also didn't know, you know, how how much is this gonna take, how long is this gonna take. And then when we had, I mean, it really I never knew who the person was who let us use that building. Oh, but whoever that was, that was massive.

SPEAKER_04 32:49

It was huge. Ken file. I'm yeah, I'm I'm um he's he's like a father figure to me. I've got to get I want to get him in this room. He's like, let me think about it. But that was yeah, it it was massive. He handed me the keys and he says he didn't even say six months. I don't think he ever said that, but he we had no money. No, and he and he literally handed me the keys and yeah, he deserves a ton um of gratitude.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

That was that was a giant piece to that to have that space to get that started, get people in there and massive. Um just yeah, and so I just I think it it's been beyond my expectations.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

Yeah, same. Um, so I'm I'm excited. Yeah, and they're you know, Pears Rising is they're in Yakima now, their um Brandy's still. I know. I just think it's the teen side is what I did not expect to and and I actually admit now that I was resistant to um well, we need to focus on, but it's been powerful, and that there's the 509 teen center, they're working with Don up in the upper county, the teen, and it's it's so needed, and yeah, it's just wonderful, yeah. Super cool. I think it's great. Very good public service family, which you've indicated, and I'm not surprised is the most important, and leadership. What you do, you have this steady presence about you. Do you ever get fired up? Don't answer that yet. Um, what helps you stay grounded and clear about what matters most?

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Uh for me, it's just knowing knowing myself and knowing what I value, and trying to only um allow the things that align with my values in, um, and then either uh get fired up because I do um about the things that don't align with my values. Get you fired up if I have any control of my um unfairness, uh lack of treating people well.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

Those are the things that I think that trying to I think you and I are alike, like because I think I go to Safeway, we walk, Safeway's right there, so we walk and and there's days where there's people out there, community members standing with the sign or what there's days I just walk by and say hi, and there's days I walk by and say, Hey, do you want something to eat? And there's days some people will go, Well, I hand them$20 and I don't say anything, you know. Do you think it's the just the unwillingness or inability for people to just look at them as humans?

SPEAKER_00 35:08

I think it's the lack of seeing them, yes.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

And the and the you know and for our youth too, yes, right? Yeah, for sure.

Recovery Community Origins And Growth

SPEAKER_00 35:17

To to uh not stop and have a conversation, to not take the time to even just like ask somebody what their name is. There's there's a pretty there's a popular book right now, and we use it at Sea Law High School in one of our classes, and it's called What Happened to You. Oh and it's the question that you ask instead of what's wrong with you. Um and then it's just it's a whole it's different stories and conversations about trauma and resilience and things like that. And you know, and that's part of what I think the way that you know the words that we choose to use, you know, if if we say that um homeless people are a problem in our community, that's not the way to phrase it, right? Our community doesn't support um you know people that don't have a place to live. And you if you you kind of have to turn it all around and look at really what what are we talking about here? Because we if we're a community, we're responsible for each other. And so if you're walking past a uh Ellensburg community member that clearly needs something, is struggling. What are you gonna do about it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

And I I I sometimes I'll post, and I'm sure you've seen it, you know, I do my before and after, and I'm like, when you when we and I've done this with law enforcement training, when we and I and I get it, but when we look at it as them versus us, I always say, I am them. Yeah, that is me. When you see that community member who's in a mental health crisis, drug addicted state, whatever it is, that's me.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:45

I I was them. Right. I am them, right? Right. And if we can just try to look at this from a different angle rather than just the latest soundbite or latest craziness that's going on, and just look at our community members as community members from a different angle, I think we'll get a lot further.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Right. Or think about what if it was what if that was my brother? What if that was my husband? What if that was my friend? You know, I mean, there's just ways that I think that the lack of connection, our our public policies, I don't think, always acknowledge our shared humanity. There's a people that deserve and people that don't deserve, you know, and that's that's a wrong way to look at it. Those are the things that I that I tend to get um varied out about. But you you know, I think that as long as you know you have to know yourself really well in order to walk with calm, right? And you have to know what you really value. And I don't know that everyone has ever had the chance or the opportunity to decide what are the most important things to me. What am I gonna let in and what am I going to choose not to get fired up about? You know, there there are plenty of things that are probably out of your control.

unknown 37:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Um, and those are the things that are probably not worth getting fired up about, but there's a lot that is within our control, especially when you, like I said, you just look at your own community, you can do many things. Look at the things that you've done, right? You can change your community, yeah, you can have an impact.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

Well, and so I read it a long time ago. You know, we can I I can get internally fired up about all these things going on way out there, but if I just focus on my circle of influence and my community, man, I can make a lot of change. And my hope and why I keep doing the things I do is that'll bleed out.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

It will. The microcosm is reflected in the larger world. I mean, that is what it is. You it we we have a um a saying down at Seal High School, you control your 20 square feet. Yeah, right? Yes, and if you have yours and I'm fine, and you know, and then that will reflect um and be mirrored into the larger picture. And so, I mean, those that's a fact, and I think that's part of what I'm uh getting at trying to get across too, is that you in your community if you don't stop and see everyone, if you don't take the time to have a conversation, and if you don't take a time the time to recognize, validate, um, then you're really you're you're kind of deciding I deserve this, but that person doesn't. You know, and then and that's not acknowledging our shared humanity.

SPEAKER_04 39:22

Have you considered running for any other office selected office position?

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Um, not immediately because I I wouldn't have the time to commit to it, but it when I retire, okay, I might consider something like that. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna remember that.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Yeah, no, good. Okay. All right, here we go. This is your opportunity, um, you know, to say to the world a message of hope. So what's a message of hope or encouragement you would give to someone who listens to this now or in the future who feels overwhelmed by responsibility or self doubt?

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Oh, yeah. This was a good when I saw this, I was like, that's a really good question. And I I think so. My message would just the only message I can give is what I would do, what I do myself. myself if I have if I'm overwhelmed or doubting is that I prioritize. And again, that's with what are my values, right? What do I and for me I always think about love and freedom. Those are the two things that I roll through my head all the time. Um and then slow down. Because I think we're too I gotta do this, I gotta do that. Again if you really prioritize there aren't that many things you really have to do.

SPEAKER_04 40:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

And you slow down.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

Yeah. Um and then the next indicated thing. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Yeah. Slow down and then make sure that you're always moving forward even if it's just yeah a little tiny oh I like it. So that's perfect. That's a three step process. And I also hope that people ask for help even if they don't see it immediately available. Like continue to ask for help because someone there is someone who will help.

Youth Treatment Gaps And Reentry

SPEAKER_04 41:00

You're absolutely right. I say this because um I I I say you know I've been able to achieve a certain amount of success in my life and none of it has been in isolation. None of it has been without the help of others and it just takes asking for that help. It can be the most difficult thing to do but man the second that I've asked for help it's there.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Yes. Yeah and and the thing you know you've asked me a a lot about community and stuff. The thing that uh bothers me the most is that when we do have people asking for help and we can't connect them with it. Because there are situations where you're like there's barriers. My God I don't know what to do. And so when when you're doing everything right you're doing everything you can you're asking for help and then the help isn't there isn't there. Those are the the those are the community issues that we all need to put our heads together to solve. I like it. Okay here we go this is it I always get a little nervous on this one what's a question you've always wanted to ask me all right so um this is a serious question it's gonna sound like a lighthearted question okay um but um I'm very interested in risk taking why people take risks and so my question for you is um you're a motorcycle rider um we both know that riding a motorcycle is not safe yeah um yeah go on right and so I guess my my question for you is um what is it about that kind of risk taking um that fuels you or feeds you or what do you get out of it? Why do you like to do that?

Shared Humanity And Language Shifts

SPEAKER_04 42:38

Because there's nobody that rides motorcycles that isn't doing it partially for that reason I don't think yeah that's a that's a great question I look at it from a couple different angles one I I ride a motorcycle because of Johnny Ravel he took me on my first motorcycle ride and that's who Johnny's named after when I was just a boy eight years old in sunny Arizona and I was both scared to death and just completely exhilarated because I felt safe with mix yeah yeah uh and and I'll be honest I I there are times when I'm riding my bike where I have to just like calm myself because I do get fearful about anything could happen at any time and I could die right but I also there is nothing quite like being on you know it's that thing on the open road I get in a meditative state it's just amazing. And then it makes me think it's like I'm like every time you know you tell someone you ride a motorcycle they're like oh they tell you about how someone died exactly it's like oh my god you know it's like and um I also so I bring it back to just someone said to me a long time ago you're never gonna know unless you ask and you're never gonna know unless you do and I added that part but uh life short um I don't I don't want to be on my deathbed if I'm on my deathbed and go God I should I wish I would have tried that or I wish I and I don't do everything that rolls around in my head but um but you want your your you want an empty bucket yes on a bucket list by the time you're done yeah and it and it comes from having rebooted my life at 29 from a complete shit show to living the pretty good life I have today um I want to have an impact and I want to leave a legacy. And I want my grandsons and my son and my son has said this he's like yeah my dad uh he said it in the way of you know I feel like I can never live up to you and I'm like no don't do that dude I want you to try I want you to ask I want you to do um and and I'm thinking of me and Katrina and just her starting this preschool I I take risk because I can yeah because I'm fortunate because there are people out there that wish they could have the life I had in the stage. So I'm I'm gonna capitalize on that. And and to close this up to give other people hope. Yeah like oh David did that I can fucking do that. I like it yeah or I can ask you how I do that yeah let's go and and and just you've talked a lot about young people um you know giving young people hope and courage and the if I can give them an opportunity through me taking risks then let's go.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

I like it.

SPEAKER_04 45:21

There it is. Yeah well thank you for joining me it's been really cool this will I'm sure this will be helpful for a lot of people until next time