A Mom’s Hidden Drinking & The Road To One Year Sober (w/guest Bailey Duncan)

She looked successful. She felt trapped. That’s the gap at the center of functional alcoholism, and Bailey Duncan names it with brutal clarity.

I talk with Bailey, an Ellensburg barber shop owner, wife, and mom, about how addiction can hide inside a full life. She shares what it was like to drink throughout the day and still keep working, how White Claw became the “acceptable” version of dependence, and why the real price wasn’t only financial. It was anxiety, fear, and the exhausting mental loop of trying to control the next day by managing the next drink.

From there, we move into what actually helped: getting honest with someone safe, finding a recovery community and building balance across physical health, emotional health, and spiritual health. Bailey breaks down her all-or-nothing patterns and how she learns to redirect intensity into routines that support sobriety. We also dig into relapse, why shame keeps people stuck, and how “go for a minute, then an hour” can be a realistic way to start.

If you’re a parent, a high achiever, or anyone who feels caught between “I’m fine” and “I can’t stop,” this conversation offers practical hope. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review with the takeaway you’re using this week.

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Bailey

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome to Deep Dive with Dr. D. It's a beautiful Sunday in Ellensburg. No W so far. We don't say that word out loud. And uh good to be here. Missed you guys last week. I was in sunny Arizona, so I took a little break. Um and it was sunny and it was warm and we enjoyed it. But uh here we are, and I have with me, I do this every time, a special guest. All my guests are specials, but this one is even more special. Um, and we'll get into that in a minute. It's uh Bailey Duncan. Um many people in Ellensburg know you well. Your family's been in this valley for a long, long time. Um and Bailey and I met when she was 14. Did I get it right? Yeah, yeah. Long time I said 15. Um and we'll we'll kind of get into that, I'm sure, along the way. Uh I've known her for uh 15 years. You're 29.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

32.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

32.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

She got the 14 right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Oh my god, you're 32? Wow. I can't keep track of all these ages. All right, wow, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

I'll take 29.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

So we've known each other for that would be 15, 18 years. A long time. Um, and it's been great to be part of her journey. So, with that said, I uh want to turn it over to her and uh introduce yourself to the world. Anyone who watches this who doesn't know you, tell them about Bailey, whatever you want to share.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Yeah, um, I'm from Ellensburg, Washington. I lived here my whole life. Um grew up normal childhood. I have two older sisters. Uh, we're all about two years apart, and went to Ellensburg High School, played sports growing up. Um toward the end of high school, I didn't play as many sports. Um kind of went down some different avenues, which I'm sure we'll get into. Um but I graduated from Ellensburg High School, moved to Tri-Cities, um started cosmetology school there. Was in Tri-Cities about six months, moved back, graduated from Bluestone. Oh yeah. And I've been barbering since 2013. I own a barber shop in town.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yeah, you started at uh your parents' chiropractor shop, right? You initially started there.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

Um that's where the shop I own started. Yeah. But um, I started barbering for other people back in 2013.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Did you work at Supercuts?

SPEAKER_04 2:43

For a year. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I was going through our history. And uh, you know, that's the cool thing about technology, is I you know, you can go back and chat. So you were at Supercuts for a while, then where?

SPEAKER_04 2:56

Um, Supercuts, and I was at CW barber shop.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Oh, that yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

And then we had a shop out on Dollar Way called Crazy Horse that closed. Oh. I was there for two years, and then I started the shop in my parents.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Where was Crazy Horse?

SPEAKER_04 3:12

On Dollar Way, next to kind of close to like Valley Vision.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Did I ever go out there? I don't think I did. It always feels like you're cheating and you go to somewhere else. Um, okay. Family.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

Family. I have a six-year-old son named Regs. Um, I've been married for a long time. Ten years and let's see, last June. So we're coming up on 11 years. Um my mom and dad were local chiropractors. That was second generation. My grandpa was a chiropractor in town. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

What do you do for fun?

SPEAKER_04 3:51

What do I do for fun? I'm very outdoorsy. Um I really like hiking. I recently just ended my career with snowboarding because I can't stop getting hurt. But um because you're 32. 32, not 29.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

Um, yeah, we're just a really outdoorsy family. Yeah, hunting. We like going morale hunting in the spring. We haven't been shed hunting in a while since we've had children, so that's more challenging to do. But yeah, it's more recently, just a lot of hiking. I like traveling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Okay, outdoorsy family married almost 10 years. Um, local family. What what year did your grandparents move here or did have grand great grandparents? Do you know?

SPEAKER_04 4:37

I don't know what year it was. I know my dad was four, and my grandpa moved here originally to work on the railroad.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Wow. But um Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

Yeah, then he became a chiropractor.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

Yeah. I don't know the time lapse or like how that all happened, but yeah, and your dad.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Now, oh, where did your mom and dad meet?

SPEAKER_04 4:55

Oh, in chiropractor school? Yes. It was a way! So my gosh. My mom was from Iowa, and well, my dad moved here when he was four before that. He was in Wisconsin, but they met in Iowa at Palmer Chiropractic College. And then my dad moved back here, and then I don't know how they describe it. He called her and basically asked her to marry him and move here.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Wow.

unknown 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

That's back in the day.

SPEAKER_04 5:19

Back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

What year were they married? Do you know?

SPEAKER_04 5:22

I know their anniversary is the day after mine. I don't know. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

All right. And you have siblings.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

Yes, I have two older sisters. Um, my older sister, Heather, is in California. Uh-huh. Um, she's a financial advisor and owns her own firm. And then my middle sister, Megan, is a massage therapist in Moses Lake, and she just started her own business.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Oh, she did? Oh, good for her. And I met her, I don't think maybe I met your older sister at the wedding. Did she come up?

SPEAKER_04 5:49

At my wedding?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yeah. Your wedding.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

I'm sure you met her at some point.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

But so growing up, who was in charge?

SPEAKER_04 5:57

With what?

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Siblings.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

Oh, um, I don't know. I mean, we were all super close, like, when we were little little kids, and then as we got older, my two older sisters kind of like clicked. I think just that like natural progression of like I was in middle school and they're in high school, like, you know. Um, so I do think they were closer in charge. I don't know.

unknown 6:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 6:23

We were all like little feral ranch kids. So and we're all very different. We all kind of beatone drum drum, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

I think it just dawned on me. I don't know if I've ever realized, but I'm I'm the youngest too, so you're the youngest. Did you look up to your older sisters?

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

You did.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

And you you were formerly a horsey girl.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Grew up with horses. Same with them.

SPEAKER_04 6:49

Um, yeah. We all rode. Um I we all had different levels of it. I don't know. I think I rode more toward the end. Um, but yeah, Megan rode and she tried out. Well, I was on royal court. I guess that's one thing if you don't know me. I was on rodeo roll court in 2014. Um, but Megan tried out for that a few years before, and so but my dad, you know, he's rode his whole life. He rodeoed when he was younger.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

He's still on the posse.

SPEAKER_04 7:16

Yeah, he's still on the posse. Um, but you know, as he grew or as we grew up, he'd use horses for like hunting and things like that. So Megan and I kind of stayed in that realm of riding, I guess. And we still do sometimes with that.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Your mom, she wrote?

SPEAKER_04 7:31

Um, I remember her riding for a little bit in my childhood, but it wasn't like really her big hobby or anything.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

She grew up on a ranch farm.

SPEAKER_04 7:39

Uh my mom grew up in Iowa. It wasn't You guys. Oh, I grew up. Yeah, I was like, I don't know if she grew up on a ranch. Yeah, we um yeah, my parents had 75 acres. Oh wow. What part of the valley? Nanum off of Nanam. Oh, okay. Yeah. That way. Yeah, that way. Um But yeah, I mean I just remember building tree houses in the fields and you know, out of just like whatever you find around and running around and rope swings off of haystacks and just go outside, play all day.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

I like I like that term, feral.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

Feral.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

I was a feral city boy. It's possible, very possible. You were a feral country girl.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Okay. Well, thank you for the introduction. That's good. Um, let's see. Any follow-up questions to that? Oh, yeah, what what's something unique about you that would surprise people to hear? Maybe even people that have known you a long time.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

Unique about me.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Yeah. That they'd be like, oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

I mean, it's a trait, I guess. I feel like I'm kind of an introvert and shy, but people wouldn't really think that at all because I mean, my job, I talk to people all day, which I love.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Um all day long you're talking to people.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

And I am I do seem like social and stuff, and I I am, but I actually am like very terrified of things. Yep. Like social, uh, social things. Like um Royal Court was probably one of the hardest things I ever did. When we had to give a speech, I think it was like 400 people.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Well I practiced the where did you sing? You sang the national anthem.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

I was gonna say, yeah, and and I used to sing yeah public things, and um I sang the national anthem for extreme bowls one year. That's what it was. And so, like somebody who's shy or doesn't like things like that, you wouldn't think do it, but would do it. But I just like I don't know, push myself out of my comfort zone or try to.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yeah, and I think people that know you well know that side of you. I know that side of you. So what pushes you like I remember we practiced in our backyard at the house on Fifth Avenue for the national anthem, and I remember doing your speech, and so what what's where does that drive to do that come from?

SPEAKER_04 9:48

Um man, family values. I just I feel like my dad's always like and my mom have helped push us to just like be better, go bigger, go harder. Um I mean a slight example of that is I own my own business, my oldest sister opened her own. Megan, my other sister opened hers, and like we're just we have this drive, or we're raised with this drive to just keep going and try harder things and not just like sit back and stay stagnant. And so I guess I would say that's where that comes from.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Yeah. And that's always I think that's why you and I have always clicked really well, because I'm the same. I mean, our histories are much different, I think, but you know, put in the work, do the things, do better, be better. And if you know better, keep learning, right? Like you're I remember when you opened the barber chop and uh you know the the normal stresses and struggles, but um yeah, so uh high five to your parents for instilling that in you, and you're doing that with your son now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. You want to do a question?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Sure.

How Drinking Started Young

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Okay, she says sure. Okay, I want to look just to see if we're live here. This software is newer software I'm using, so it's kind of annoying, and I just like to make sure it's working. I'm gonna assume it is. I don't know. It says it is. Yeah. Alright. Let's see what oh, I'm gonna start with this. So um we have a long history. Uh I met you years and years ago when you do you mind me saying? No. I met you, I met Bailey in 2014.

SPEAKER_04 11:28

No, I was 14.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

You were 14, so what year is that? 12? Well, I graduated in 11.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

I was a freshman in high school.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

It was at Barth. Yes. Oh god, so we're 2008-ish, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:43

7-8. 7-8.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Because that's when I was at Barth. And uh I don't remember that interaction as well as when you came to Cascade. That was the second time. So that was about a yearish, two-ish years later, two years later. Um, and uh I remember, you know, that first interaction, and and I remember Pam who ran the place. She I remember she's like, David, I want I want you to have Bailey. I want you to talk to Bailey. She says, if anyone can you know get through, you know, it was one of those things. And and your mom brought you in, and and uh that's that's where we first started having conversations about your relationship with alcohol. And of course, you know, those days you're like you you had a shell. You had a very hard shell.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

I would also like to say I was 16 years old.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

I know absolutely well. Let me ask you this. Now looking back, do you think you had a problem then?

SPEAKER_03 12:36

I do.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

But I think it was like early diagnosed, like it was hard, it was too soon in my addiction to be told that and know, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, good. But that's way back where we first had interactions, and I found this. This is from so we're going way forward. We've stayed connected over the years at different levels. It was June of 22, June 28th, 22, almost four years ago. You'll help me with my math, you're good at correcting me. Um, where you reached out and you said, you said, hey, I need some help. How do I get into your program? And that's when I had started the um Peers Rising, which was KCRCO. And we've stayed solid connected since then. And I I want you to hear from me because you just celebrated a year, dude. I'm so proud of you.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Thank you.

The Cost Of Looking Fine

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Because it's been a journey, right? Since this time, it's been a journey, and I could go, you know, I have text messages like um I want to try again. I want to, and I'm just like, okay, you know, throughout, okay, because I knew I said to you early on that sobriety's in your future. I knew solid sobriety was in your future, kind of goes back to kind of what your parents like do better, work hard, do the things you want to do. And so I think you had a knowing way back then. So let's do it. Looking back, what did that functional, because you are the classic definition. I want people to hear this. Classic definition, and for females, of functional alcoholism, of functional abusive drinking, of functional, like I'm drinking, you were drinking throughout the day, um, your little, what were they called?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

White claws.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

White claws, right? And you you remind me of Sarah, my good friend Sarah. Sarah drank throughout the day. Most people would have no idea. You worked, you ran a business, you had a family, you, you know, we when we peel the onion back, then you kind of go, but from the outward end, you know, everything's fine. No problem here. Um, so looking back, what did that functional phase of drinking, in your view, really cost you?

SPEAKER_04 14:53

Well, um, there's a couple things I want to touch on this, but I guess I mean obviously financially, that's a given. Um alcohol's expensive.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

But other than that, it just How much do you think you were spending a day?

SPEAKER_04 15:07

I mean, at the end. Okay, so I gotta backtrack on one thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

My alcoholism over time has adapted to evolve with my life. Yeah. Um, you know, back in high school I was drinking hard alcohol probably throughout just outside of high school. Um, you know, there was some drugs in there, things like that. And I realized I couldn't have the drive I needed if I did that. So I kind of learned what I could drink to still function, which to me landed on white claws because so did that change when you got married, when you had a kid?

SPEAKER_00 15:43

When did that change?

SPEAKER_04 15:44

I think it shifted over my whole life. Like, oh, you can't drink that fifth because you're gonna be too hungover. So, like, it's it's it's insanity, is what it is. But like, oh, I can handle four white claws and some water.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Just doing the dance.

SPEAKER_04 15:56

Yeah. So, I mean, financially, you ask me what did it cost me toward the end? Well, I mean, I was buying a 12-pack of white claws a day at least. I don't really know. I mean, give or take, whatever. There was just I just always made sure I had some, right? Um, and those are twenty-something dollars a box. But um anyway, so white claw was what I was landing on, but really it just robbed me of like my peace of mind. Um, like I just said, you're stuck in this in insanity, this cycle of like, am I drinking enough water today to drink tonight to be able to go to work tomorrow so that I don't have a panic attack during this haircut? Like it's just like Jekyll and hide crazy. It's a battle, right? Like these two things don't go together. Um so I I would say, you know, financially, but it really robbed me of my peace. And like you just feel trapped in your own body. Like I remember going to sleep at night when you're finally like quiet and laying down, and you're like, I just drank nine in the last two hours, and now I realize I'm drunk and I'm stuck here, and I gotta get up tomorrow and go to work, and like it wasn't an option to not function on that level because, like I said, I have that drive. So I just remember feeling really trapped at night and stuck in my own skin. Does that answer your question? That's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

So financial, of course. You know, we can all as a person in recovery myself, it's like you don't like that's a lot of money going out the door. You don't really realize it. I think at some level we do, but we just justify it, do all the dance, what I'm hearing you did, but also your peace of mind. And I remember you and me having conversations about that anxiety and and the the panic attacks, the fear, not even a panic attack, but the fear of is it gonna happen? Um, and and that was a heavy weight to bear.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Heavy weight to bear. What would you say? This is toward the end, but um this you are a demographic that is what we call the hidden alcoholism. Um, a lot of in and you and I just chatted about this, our current wine culture, you know, mom and they we have shirts, you know, mom and wine, they go together, blah blah blah. What weight was that for you as a female mom married, you know, did that have a weight on you in any way?

SPEAKER_04 18:21

I'm not sure I understand the question.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Did you feel more isolated? Did you feel like because you talked you would reach out to me, did you reach out to other people?

SPEAKER_04 18:32

Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Why?

SPEAKER_04 18:35

I I guess I just felt I felt like I was the in between. Like, you know, you are you have these moms that maybe are drinking wine at the park on a play date, but I was drinking four white claws on the way. So, like that mom is not gonna understand, you know. But um also I wasn't on the level of like homeless and unemployed what we see on news, right? Right, and so I just I felt like I was in this in-between, and I don't know, like you share your recovery out loud. I know you're not gonna judge me, and so it was like, well, shit.

Community And All Or Nothing

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Put it out. Here you go. Sure. Like sure, yeah. Now I know you you've engaged with the recovery community, and and now you you are more open with those people you trust, which I think is a great thing. How has that helped?

SPEAKER_04 19:26

Um like specifically just in general. Uh community is huge. I um I do go to AA here and there. Um, but the people I've met there just that have the same goal and mindset, not only to stay sober, but to like better live life. Yeah, and I I want to touch on this later on some of the questions, but like having balance of like physical, emotional, and spiritual health, those three things. Um a lot of the people in sobriety, I feel like just strive for balance, and it's not just staying sober. So to have people in that realm, I mean, you're gonna be who you hang out with, so yes, you are. Um that's been huge for me. I definitely couldn't do it without my friends.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same. How about another question? Okay, okay. Oh, yeah, I forgot. I told you we're live over there too. We're live here, we're live there, we're live everywhere. Yeah, you've touched on this a little, maybe expand on it a little more. When did you start to recognize your all or nothing addictive patterns, and how has that awareness changed the way you live your life today? So maybe go back to where, you know, because we talked about, yeah, a lot of 16-year-olds, like good luck trying to reach them, so to speak, and there's no judgment there, but you're so young. Um, maybe where where between then and last year, when you got on the recovery train, so to speak, you actually did it before then. Um, but where did it come to you that man, I I gotta make a shift? And then how has that changed you and your life today in recovery?

SPEAKER_04 21:14

Um, like the all or nothing behavior, I I've always been intense and competitive. In fact, I used to think it was like a weird quality. Like, why are you so strong in this way? Like, so I don't know if obsessed is the right word, but um I really have noticed my all or nothing and my sobriety with silly little things. Like I figured out that I am just a routine person and it's really hard for me to get out of routine. Whether it's buying like an Americano at the coffee stand every morning, it's not a big deal. But my brain, like short circuits where like, if I don't get that Americano, what could possibly happen? And I go in this like spiral. So at least in sobriety, I've taken that all or nothing with the positive habits, like with working out. Let's go all in. Like, that's not gonna hurt me. That's a good thing. Um, I've I try to recognize where it is positive and then. Where it's not positive, I just try to give myself grace and work on it. As long as it's obviously not drinking or something. But um does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yeah, it makes it makes perfect sense because just talking about coffee, like I do the same like we went to Arizona and it's like I have to break my routine and I know I'm away. But as soon as I come back, I'm at Weineger's first thing in the morning. I'm getting my exact coffee the exact way, and God forbid they screw it up. That's kind of a joke. But uh that and I think that's pretty normal. Um, and it's not gonna hurt me though. It's not gonna cause me to, you know, go on a bender for days or end up in jail or ruin my family. Um and I I've seen this at you you remind me of Sarah a lot with your physical health and your you're all in, and I've seen you struggle a little bit when you've gotten some injuries. Like, you know, am I ever gonna heal? And so how do you deal with that? Because I think you you have at some level like the snowboarding. You're you've you've come to terms. Ah, finally, you you have small for me. What's that like to walk through that?

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Oh, it sucks. I I mean I I mope, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, every I mean you're gonna mope, you're yeah, but well, right now I have a calf injury from snowboarding, but that's where I finally was like, okay, well, you can keep boarding and maybe injure yourself and not be able to do anything you want to do, or you can give up this one thing and be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

And what would that decision have been like in active when you're drinking?

SPEAKER_04 23:33

You know what's kind of funny. I was thinking about this actually this morning. When I ruptured my Achilles four years ago, it was during a stint of sobriety. And I am so thankful that I was sober throughout that time because if I hadn't have been sober before, I was home all day, every day. I mean, I just I don't know how dark of a place I would have been in. Um because I would have had all day, every day to drink, and then also you're sorry, but you have to be on pain pills in that situation. They drilled through my heel bone. Like that so where am I where am I going with this?

SPEAKER_00 24:04

No, so you go into this dark place.

SPEAKER_04 24:07

Yeah, so oh okay. So for my injuries, if I would have been drinking, that would have been bad. Really bad.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Um when you say really bad, meaning you would have just done it anyway and hurt yourself more, you would have had depression, anxiety. All of it, all of it, all of it. So the difference is like with the snowboarding, because I remember you talking, you and I chatting about like guess I'm done snowboarding. So emotionally, what's that like now in recovery? How do you walk through that in recovery to let it go?

SPEAKER_04 24:40

Yes, yeah. Well, yes, and then like okay, so I guess that would be the difference. If I was drinking, I'd be like, well, I give up. I can't, you know, work out. Well, now I got this calf injury, so I did arm day today. So you do things differently. We adjust. Yep, adjust.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

That's a good word for it. Good. I I guess Sarah, Sarah's had this uh injury that she's been like struggling with for a while, and and I've listened, I listened to her, and she's like, we we kind of joke because she's uh I'm probably gonna get it wrong, but I think she's 43. She's like, well, we're getting older.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

29.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

29, yeah. Sarah's 29. 32? Wow, you are getting old. But we we you know, this it is what it is. Yeah, I have this mantra that I use for when I'm going through struggle. This is what it is. And it doesn't mean that I'm excited about it, doesn't mean that I'm super sad about it, it just is what it is. And I'm hearing you do that.

SPEAKER_04 25:34

I've really embraced the um control what you can, and if you can't control it, it's let it go. It's gone. And I I don't know, I've just taken that to the grave, man. That has been my mantra.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Yeah, it's good, very good. Another question?

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Sure.

Motherhood And The Real Shift

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, I want to, I want, I want to hear what happened for you. Now I put 15 years, but now that you're 32, it was actually more. I don't know how long it was. But what finally shifted? Because people always ask this. They ask this about me. You know, what was it, what was the turning point for you? And I'm like, well, there were several. So many. But let's let's talk about you oh shit. When's the last time you ever had a year? Is this it? Is this the first time?

SPEAKER_04 26:19

Yeah, the only other time since I was 14 was when I was pregnant. I made it to obviously my child, yeah. Nine months.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

But that you had that carrot stick kind of thing. I'm not gonna do but you of your own volition, you you have owned this year. Like you, like, I'm so fucking proud of you, dude. Like, and and we have the same recovery anniversary. That is like friends. I've walked with her, and you know, you it my friends in recovery, you know, this dance we do, and it's it is what it is. You're like this, and that's what it's been like since 2022 for you. Like, you'd get a few months, and I'd get the four months. Yeah, like I'd get the text, I drank okay. I just let's keep going. So it's it's pretty fucking cool. Yeah, like look at you go. All right. So after whatever years of struggling, what was it? What finally shifted for you to say, this is it, I'm done.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Um I man, I've had so many times in my life where it was like, like you were just talking about where any sane person would have looked at that and been like, Well, how are you not done yet? You know, one that was actually coming to my mind this morning, and I just totally had blocked it out, was that I missed my high school graduation. I got so messed up that I, anyways, passed out, couldn't walk just down the aisle type deal. So but stories like that, right? That were like terrible, heartbreaking, awful things. Um but yeah, I mean, I think the last six or so years, I just really had it finally drilled in my head where it's like, you are the problem. There's no one around you you can blame you. This is your issue. And um obviously having a son, I just was like, man, you gotta get it together. Um so yeah, I just I guess for me, it was becoming a mom, um, wanting to show that example, and just not wanting to do the same crap, wanting to actually like live life, um, not just be like sober and thinking around. I don't know, but like truly live life. And I have I've done that this year, like with the hiking and all this stuff that I've been doing. It just it's not just being sober. I just wanted to enjoy life. Not that you know, you're not gonna have a life that's just like perfect and butterflies and life's still life, right? It's still life, but like to have moments where you're laughing so hard and you just literally have that moment of like pure joy is worth it to maybe have a bad hour later or something, you know. Um so I guess you know, parenthood really pushed me, but I do know right before a couple years later now, before I was pregnant, I I just always felt a shift coming, like you had a knowing. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, I knew that it needed to happen. It just was like, and you know, this moment right here, I was talking to my husband this morning, it's like really surreal for me because I remember so many times just crying or praying, and like, what is this for? Like, and I remember thinking maybe someday I'll be at a point where like I could help someone else, and I could be, you know, in a place to do that, and I I just never was until now, and that's just it's really surreal.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Super cool. I I really your your writing that you did on your one-year anniversary was powerful. Um, and hearing you say that some other women reached out to you, that's the gold, isn't it? Like I'm I got I have chills because like you're you're a powerhouse now. You you can help so many other people. And here's what I want you to hear you are helping people you don't even hear from them. Yeah, you might hear from them later. And so I'm all yeah, yeah, I'm out front, I'm out there waving, you're like recovery's amazing, and you know, I want you at whatever level you can do that to do that because you you have a story to tell that does not get told enough. We hear about the David Douglas's, you know, on the streets, in and out of jail, blah blah blah. We hear about that. We don't hear enough about this demographic. This is what I'm talking about. And in our community, I'm sure there is a mom out there, and I hope they're listening to this. I hope she's listening to this that she can get hope.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

Right? Well, even even dads, like I hear it all the time. Yeah, just just not even like like, oh, you know, they're talking about them and their spouse or something, and just yeah, we just kind of go in these benders, so then you know, we're gonna do whatever sober January, what's it called? Dry January. Which is great. I think that's awesome, but I can tell that there's people that don't even realize that maybe they have this issue because society has made it so normal, like it's not normal. Yeah, it it I don't know why. I mean, I guess I get it, but social media and all that.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

It's legal, it's socially accepted, it's almost expected. It is expected in a lot of scenarios. Um, and it's you know, if you hear someone smoking crack or doing meth, it's like, oh, that's bad. Yep, that's illegal, that's immoral, right? But king alcohol gets a pass.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

Which is crazy because it's literal poison.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

And and and no one talks people are usually surprised to hear this, but alcohol kills more people to this day than any other drug combined. Meth, fentanyl, all of it. Combined, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

Well, and I guess one thing I do want to touch on this too, when these people reached out to me, it's not even just alcohol. Like I had a friend that reached out to me, she's struggling with um addictive use of marijuana. And people talk about that too. It's oh yeah, it's just your cr it's a crutch, right? Like, it doesn't have to be alcohol. You can is if you're semi-functioning and you're struggling with something that is like robbing you of your peace, then yeah, this is what you should be listening to, I guess.

The First Step Out Loud

SPEAKER_00 32:08

It's true. Oh, this is your last question, and then we got the two closing questions. Yeah, okay. This is the the next two are gonna be kind of similar, but let's do them anyway. For someone who feels stuck in that cycle, like like I think about you know, three years ago when you're like wanting it, you try it, you you go back, you want it. Like I could go through our text messages and I I would get the message from you, and I I remember, like everyone says, Oh, you know, and I think it's valuable to have a sobriety date. I'm not being dismissive, but most people have tried so many times, and you're just on that train. You're on that that, like, oh my. So if someone's out there stuck in that cycle right now, what does that first step actually look like in real life? And and think about the many times that you sent me the message or sent someone else a message or said, okay, today's the day, what does it look like in real life?

SPEAKER_04 33:07

I think the biggest thing is just to stop suffering and silence. Like, even if you're not willing or able to get sober today, like just tell someone, reach out to a mentor or um someone, you know, that's um had a pass like this, and like just start with that and know that, like, if you do, I always say go for a minute and then go for an hour. If you can make it a minute and then an hour, people say 24 hours a day. I couldn't do that in the beginning. I literally was going hour to hour. I would set not even an alarm on my phone, but I would check it every hour, and I would for me, I put an audiobook in on my days off on my head, right, earphones just keep my brain busy. Um, shoot for a minute or an hour, and then if you take a step backwards and you fail, someone said something to me once, you know, I've always relapsed around four months. Um she said, You still had that four months. Yeah. So, like, you made your past a little better by having that four months. Um so even if you got a restart, like who cares? I feel like we get this like, oh, you relapsed and now you're gonna die mentality, and like don't use that as like a like give yourself grace and don't use grace as like a crutch, I guess, to where you're like, I can keep relapsing, but like it's not doomsday, you know. You still have those four months, you still made your past look better. So just restart, like and keep restarting. Um I had relapses that went for a year, you know. Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah, I remember I remember uh when you uh returned to use once and and you and I had talked and and you're like, well, I'm just you know, this is just what I'm gonna do. And every time you would say, Okay, I'm I'm just like and I'm I'm with you that I think we put some put too much weight on a relapse as being this negative thing, which sure, yes, it's negative, but I always ask, what's have have you stayed sober before? How long? Oh, cool, let's do that again. And and what were you doing during that time that worked? Yeah, let's use that and then maybe look at what wasn't working, yeah. Or what's something new. What's I know I said this try something different, try something new, right? Um, but don't don't think that just because you return to use, that it's doomsday. I love that because it's not. Certainly we need to learn from it, certainly we need to grow from it, certainly we shouldn't celebrate relapse. That's not what you're saying, but don't make it such a big thing that then what? You just oh fuck it. Yep, yeah. That's good.

SPEAKER_04 35:49

Well, and I've learned to like the more time, I mean, and I will say now that I finally, you know, have been sober for a year, I've learned the further I get from that last drink, it definitely gets easier. And like, so I guess I was trying to think about it in a scale way this morning. Like, if I had a drink tomorrow, it would be really hard to quit, but it would be harder if I had another drink, right? Like if I had two. So if you had one relapse and you can stop it, you're gonna be ahead of it if you don't drink the next day, if that makes sense. Yeah, like the more you get involved, the more you're that much closer to the cycle, and the cycle is not easy to crawl out of.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Yeah, I was literally just three blocks over here was my little duplex. I was in there and I had returned to use in 06, 07, and I had gotten back on that, you know, and I remember I was smoking crack and just like, oh god, I just can't stop, right? That was my belief. Yeah, but here's the reality because I had had 10 plus years before, I also knew like, no, you can do this, right? You've you did it for 10 fucking years, dude. And me and Sarah had conversations about it because she had had some time in recovery before. So, but I like what you're saying that if you do return to use, you can stop that.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

As soon as you stop it, this yeah, it's not gonna be easy, but it'd be easier.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that.

SPEAKER_04 37:11

And I man, I don't know. I was kind of thinking, really, how many years it's been because the first time I ever drank, I got told I was an alcoholic. I ended up in the hospital, and that's when I went to Barth. I was 14 years old.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Um Did you do you remember Michelle at Barth? Female. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

Are we supposed to be whispering?

SPEAKER_00 37:31

No, because she was she was she was she was cool, but she was a pretty unique person. So I'm just wondering who you talk to. Did I do your assessment?

SPEAKER_04 37:39

You did it.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

I did it. You did it.

SPEAKER_04 37:41

So you were the one that told me I was an alcoholic.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Well, you here we are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

But um anyway, uh yeah, I don't know. Like my my view of relapse.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Disclose some for me to diagnose you with alcoholism, you must have disclosed at some level.

SPEAKER_03 37:59

I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

I remember thinking like in high school, like the ultimate goal in life was just to get as messed up as you could. Like um was whatever. And I yeah, I don't know. I had a short, like just kind of was talking about like the functional alcoholism thing. I guess maybe it's probably important to touch on, like, you know, I had a phase with drugs. I you know, I moved moved out of Ellensburg to get away from the crowd I was with. Um I dabbled in some things, luckily not some other things. Just you can laugh about it, but I moved to Tri Cities and my apartment ended up being above two drug dealers that were my age.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Handy.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

And six months of craziness there. I moved back to get away from it. Anyways, but I've just evolved through relapses and everything. Where it all finally came down to just white claws, because that's that's acceptable. It's how it's how it was functionable.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Easy to hide.

SPEAKER_04 38:59

Yeah, but like there's so many relapses in those however many years, but it took me until the last six years to be like, okay, it's a relapse. Now what are we gonna do?

Small Changes That Stick

SPEAKER_00 39:09

That makes sense. Yeah, it makes perfect sense. This has been good. Alright, so final two questions. Okay. So if someone's out there listening right there, I've I've really focused on demographic of female, you know, mom, because that is a demographic that stays hidden. But you you also bring up a good point about males. Uh, you know, a lot, we got a lot. So if someone out there is listening right now and feels stuck in that hamster wheel, we know about it, right? Just in that cycle, what would you want them to hear today that could maybe help them get off the wheel?

SPEAKER_04 39:49

I was kind of struggling with this question. You because you gave me a little preview of what this would be. Because I was like, man, if I was in that wheel, I wouldn't want to hear some stupid inspirational quote. Like, I just I remember hearing that kind of stuff, and it's like you just get frustrated because it's like that's not working for me.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

What helped you?

SPEAKER_04 40:08

I small, like, make a small change. Like, that's all you have to do. You don't have to change your life today or tomorrow. Just make a small change. What I literally got up. So, one thing I do is, you know, I said a balance of spiritual, emotional, physical health. At the beginning, I have a routine in the morning and no one's gonna touch it. Yeah, I go to bed at night like an old lady by 8 30, and I'm up at 3 30 in the morning, which people think are crazy. Yeah, yeah. But um my point of this is I got up early for probably 30 days in a row with the intention of working out, and I sat on my couch and drank coffee and did not work out.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:47

What did I change? I changed my routine and I'm gonna get up. After 30 days, I got really tired of sitting on the couch, so I started working out, you know, like just make a small change in the right direction. It doesn't have to be a big thing. Um in the workout world, everybody gets overwhelmed by all these exercises and things you could do, and a lot of people out there say, just move your body. And I think to simplify it like that, just make a small change. That's all it has to be, I think.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Yeah, it doesn't have to be some big, big, massive, like I'm changing my whole life today. Yeah, something simple, and something that you just said that I really appreciate is intention. Like set the intention, like you set the intention, I want to work out, but you sat on your couch for 30 days. But what then happened? You started working out because you got got bored sitting on the couch, but you made a mass, in my view, a massive change in that you got up and I'm huge, you and me are the same. I have my morning routine, Katrina has it, I have it, and I hear people and and I would argue that you also probably have a consistent sleep cycle. Yeah, yeah, that we is so critical.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

Well, I think to do your morning routine, you have it starts up before it does. Like you can't just be like, I'm gonna get up at six. And like for me, that balance is I have a Bible study, I gotta get right with Jesus in the morning. I do a Spanish lesson because it's something that I feel it helps me improve, and then I do my workout and like to establish a routine like that, or even the start of it, yeah, just set your alarm clock.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Yeah. Because when we do that, it's and and what's funny is you haven't even talked talked about putting down alcohol, right? Maybe, maybe it's maybe it's initially just setting some type of intention, and I think you would agree with me. Maybe it's reduce alcohol.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Maybe it's reduce, maybe it's set an intention, reduce, because I feel like we will almost naturally, some will argue this, go, I don't, I don't want alcohol anymore.

SPEAKER_04 42:44

Right? Or whatever you're using.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Whatever it is, right? If you set some positive intention in the right direction, it can be helpful.

SPEAKER_04 42:52

You you said that to me a long time ago. I had a sticky note or something that said, I'm sober, I am Yeah, I don't remember what I said. Yeah, positive affirmation. Positive affirmation. You just, you know, wake up, this is what I'm gonna do, whether you do it or not. Okay, but you woke up with the intention of change. So actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Yeah. I'll mess you up with brain hacks. It'll shift you in the right direction. But it is. I think I think we do put a lot in, and I get it, like, oh, you gotta quit the drugs and alcohol. Sure, yes, absolutely. But maybe it's maybe it's tomorrow morning, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna get up early and I'm gonna read my Bible, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna do some journaling. And and I, because I have a belief, and I think you'll nod your head, that when we feel connected to the world around us, drugs and alcohol no longer no longer are needed. They're no longer like my default option. Like I haven't woken up in years. I'm fortunate and God, you know, even on bad days, and God, I I want to drink, or I want to smoke pot, or I it's I want to call someone or I want to journal, or I want to read my bike.

SPEAKER_04 43:58

You gotta figure out what works for you. And I think I again I was thinking about it this morning. I I mean some people drink for trauma or this or that. I'm not saying that I haven't ever had anything traumatic, but I would drink. To silence the noise, right? Like we talked about that drive earlier. Yeah. I can't shut that off. Yeah. Right. I've learned that about me. I want to go, go, go. I want to get bigger. I want to get stronger. Um, I would drink just to slow down and be quiet. And so I just stopped listening to audiobooks because I can't find a good one. But for the last year, I've had an audiobook in my ear when I'm working out, when I'm cleaning, when I'm driving in my car, because it silences noise. It puts my brain somewhere else, and that works for me.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

And before it was alcohol.

SPEAKER_04 44:41

Yeah. Just try to silence it, right? Like, so just find what works for your brain, I guess. And that's healthy.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

That's good.

SPEAKER_04 44:49

And move with it.

Boundaries Detachment And Legacy

SPEAKER_00 44:50

It's good. Alright. This is it. What's a question? Now this will be interesting because we talk a lot. What's a question you've always wanted to ask me?

SPEAKER_04 44:59

I have two.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Oh, okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:01

So my first question. I'm trying to think of how to word this. How do you not um internalize what am I trying to say? If you're trying to help someone and they're not helpable, how do you not let that affect your peace? Like I feel like I get robbed of my peace if I'm really trying to help someone and I'm just seeing them go through such a hard thing and I they're just not helping themselves.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Great question. And something that that I do ponder um in different areas of my life, whether it's helping someone find a path to recovery, a student on campus, a family member, whatever it is. And it's the I believe it's a skill of being able to detach and let go. Um and it's something that I have to constantly work on. And usually it's more the closer I am to someone, the kind of harder it is because you want them, you want to help them, you want to see them change. But what I'm learning, and this is age, space, and time, is that um we can give information and it's up to that individual what they do with them. And and I think of my relationship with my son, my wife, my grandson Anthony, who's going into teenage years, like grandpa's got a lot of advice. But you know what? I when I find myself repeating the same thing over and over again, um, that's when I needed to let go. Because I I can't change you.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

I think about our years-long friendship, and you know, along the way, I've I've I've had struggles, and I just like I give the information and then it's up to you what you do with it. Um, sometimes do you give it again? Absolutely. But I've I've learned um and I'm dancing around the question a little bit, but I detach, and sometimes I think I detach too much, but it's it's kind of a safety thing for me.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

Yeah, defense mechanism.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Yeah, a little bit, but also I can I can also like grandson Anthony has said, like you repeat stuff, you know. I'm like, I need to listen to that.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

Because they're older than 29.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

Yeah, probably, but um, it's you know, I'm I very much love helping, but I'm also pretty good at having boundaries. I think boundaries are critical. Because when I'm helping you more than you're helping yourself, who am I actually helping? Not not you.

SPEAKER_04 47:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

So, does that answer that question?

SPEAKER_04 47:26

Okay, my other one. All right, you're known for a lot in the community. Okay. If you could be remembered for anything after you die, what do you want to be remembered for?

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Uh just nerd knee jerk is um impact on young people. Um, you know, uh my son's 35, he's not young, but being a dad, being a grandfather, um, mentoring youth um in the community, you know, the the work I did with the KCRCO that continues on to this day, not just youth, but just people. Uh, if you know, if you speak at my service, whatever it is, my party, and you say, you know, David helped me, and and I appreciate that, and I hear that from wherever I am, if I'm dead and gone, um, then my job is done. Um, because I believe this is what I've gotten as a person in recovery, but as someone who's flipped the script on my life, that my job is to help lift people up and out. That's all of our jobs. Yeah. If we did more of that and less of our world could really be different.

SPEAKER_04 48:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

So there you go. Does that answer the question? Yep.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

I like it. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Look at that. We did it. You're done. Okay. Yeah, high five.