Sisters Talk Survival - w/guests Tina Wood & Cheri Gumm

You can hear it in the way we laugh and the way we hesitate before certain details: some childhoods don’t fade, they echo. I’m Dr. D, and I sit down with my sisters Tina and Cheri for a raw family conversation about what it takes to grow up in chaos and still fight for a better life. We talk about the mix of love and damage that can exist in the same home, the moves that felt like evictions and escapes, and the quiet coping skills kids build when adults aren’t safe. 

Tina shares the moment a simple question from our brother forced her to look at her choices and stop repeating patterns. Cheri talks about surviving childhood sexual abuse, how it shaped her self-worth, and why becoming a police officer made her tougher but also emotionally colder. We get honest about grooming, about abusers who look “respectable,” and about the way families and communities can minimize harm when speaking up feels inconvenient. 

We also shift into practical hope: how to parent after trauma without raising kids in fear. We cover real-world child safety boundaries, building trust so kids will actually tell you the truth, and tools like family passwords and only visiting homes where you truly know the adults. If you’re healing from childhood trauma, sexual abuse, addiction, or toxic relationships, you’ll hear why journaling, slowing down, and choosing the right people can change everything. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review with the one lesson you’re taking into your own life.

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Transcript

Welcome And Sister Introductions

SPEAKER_04 0:09

Okay, friends, welcome to Deep Dive with Dr. D. Oh boy, this is a good one today. I say everyone's special, but this one is double special because they're both pretty special. Well, they're probably gonna say that about me. But I have my sisters with me. Um, my sister Sherry, she'll introduce herself, my sister Tina. Um, if you've followed me at all, you know I'm the youngest of four. Uh our brother Bob, maybe he'll watch this, is down in Prescott, Washington. Uh, he'll he'll get a kick out of this, I'm sure. What did I did I say Washington?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

You did.

SPEAKER_04 0:41

And you know what's funny is there is a Prescott, Washington.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

But they probably don't say it Prescott, they probably say Prescott, Washington. Anyway, okay, thank you for catching that. See, my sisters are here, they're not gonna let me get away with anything. This is gonna be great. Uh, so yeah, welcome. So let's do this. Um, you guys can um decide who wants to introduce themselves first, understanding that you know this will be recorded and out on my podcast for someone who doesn't know you. Who are you personally, professionally, who wants to start? Okay, okay, Tina.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

All right, I am the second oldest of four. And as you all know, our upbringing was a little rough, but I think that did shape me into being a very different type of person because I didn't want to go down the same path. I love my family. I moved away to Ohio over 30 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

You say you escaped.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

And I'm literally the only one that has ever moved away and stayed away.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

Stayed away.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Everybody always comes back.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Um I love dogs. I love reading. I love actually the older I get, spending more time with myself, getting to know myself, which I feel in my younger years, I really didn't get to do that. I was so busy trying to cope.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Okay. And um, you just retired.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

I did.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Partial retirement. But you're still working two days a week. Yeah. Oh, yeah, okay. That's right. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

You are, and you're you've been doing more traveling and cool. So uh, husband, two kids, tell us about them.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Okay, Travis and I have been married uh going on 31 years. I have three kids. I have a son that's 44 from a previous marriage, and I have two daughters. Um, my son is Robert, my oldest daughter is Lydia, she's 29, and my youngest daughter is Abby, she is 27.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

Which we just learned in this family visit that when she was mad at them, she would go to call their name and call them Labby. Lydia and Abby. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, cool. All right. Sherry, who are you?

SPEAKER_01 3:06

I don't know. I'm Sherry. Uh I am a mother of six kids and four stepchildren. Um, a widow of five years. My husband and I raised our ten kids. We have 15 grandchildren, one great grandchild. I retired as a cop over seven years ago after 21 years. But life changed. So I'm back to working again after my husband decided to leave. Anyway, um other than that, I mean hobbies. I don't have much. My hobbies is my family. I do like riding my bike. I like my dogs, I breed cavaliers, so that's like a second.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

Yeah. Well, we say with my sister Sherry, who yeah, you you both lived pretty amazing lives to this point, and I admire you both. I know we always give each other a lot of crap, but um uh we say Sherry when she was told, so she always said when she was younger she wanted to have a lot of kids. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, and so she had six, and the dog literally want me to have one for her afternoon. Yeah, because the doctor said you can't have any more kids. That's literally what they said. Otherwise, so now you know she has grandkids and and the dogs. We we uh everyone who meets you when you have the dogs with you is like, oh my god, look at those cute dogs. Um, so cool, very good. Um, let me see. Any follow-up questions to that? No, we'll get into the questions. So we have some questions here. Uh, who wants to take the first one? I'll read it to you since you forgot your glasses, old lady. Okay. And as I'm looking at now, for those of you that follow me, maybe you've read my book or the story and all that. So um, you know that our mom had, you know, I call them dads of the week. So Sherry and I have the same biological father. Tina, we're not sure. We learned later in mom's life that uh Kenny Rogers was his name. That's what mom said. So, but Tina looks the most like mom. Me and Sherry, obviously, because we have the same dad, but I see mom in both of you, but you that's mom, right? I'm looking at mom, so she's probably gonna tell us, get out of here, go do something. I need to clean. That's what I'm waiting for to say.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

No, I need not.

What Shaped Us Most

SPEAKER_04 5:29

Yeah, like at dinner. That was funny. Uh, so the first one, maybe if you want to expand on it, um, but you kind of gave a little bit, um, is tell me a little about your life and what shaped who you are today. Because we're all kind of have had our own walks in life, but you know, given our crazy childhood and life that we lived, um, and maybe your life to this point, but what has shaped who you are today when you when you hear that?

SPEAKER_00 5:57

So, what shaped me today? There's a lot of things in our past that shaped me, but there was one pivotal point that made me pivot and change.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

And that was when our older brother Bob said, What are you gonna do? Get married as much as mom does?

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Really?

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Because I've been married, this is my third marriage. And I was seeking all my marriages were older men, they were people that weren't good for me. So when he said that, I was like, Whoa.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Who's the second?

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Um, I married um Oh, that's Gerdolf. That's what brought me to Ohio.

SPEAKER_04 6:44

That's what that's right. How long was that one?

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Four.

SPEAKER_04 6:47

Four years.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

I told Trav if he makes it past four years, he's good. That was usually my memory.

SPEAKER_04 6:52

Yeah, so it was a conversation with our brother.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Who I don't know your guys' view, you know, I'm Bob will always be my hero. Like there was a lot of stuff there, but you know, he was kind of forced into a parent role. Um, but so for you it was that conversation. Which he had his own struggles with marriage, but him saying that.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

It just like it woke me up, like, oh, you are doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

Repeating what mom did.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

You're searching for something instead of fixing what is making you search for that, I guess. But I really never went to any kind of counseling or any kind of uh therapy, which I probably should, because I'm sure I still have issues, and please don't ask my husband. We know she has issues, but you know, so that was I think the moving away was my therapy, which I I regret it now, but I'm so thankful for the family I have because I missed my family back here. I missed so many things. I mean, your kids growing up, your kid growing up, you know. I didn't have all that because I also refused to come back. I was like, no, I'm not going back there. I'm not going back.

SPEAKER_04 8:01

Interesting. You know, until I was, I never, you know, you moved. We kind of jokingly say you escaped, but I always have viewed it as good for you. You know, that you did and like you've been married 31 years and we love Travis, even though he cheated on you. That's a joke. That was a practical joke one year. But I never viewed it as bad. I never was like, oh man, Tina, I don't know about you.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

But you know, your biggest regrets in life are the things you don't get to do or you don't do. Yeah. You know, so that that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 8:31

You missed the family. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

People talk about, oh yeah, when so-and-so was in school, I'm like, I wasn't there, I didn't know, you know.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

So thanks. Sherry, what has shaped you?

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I guess if you could say my earliest recollections that started to shape me away from the negative was being a grandma's answer to because every time I would go there, there would be peace. It was just peace, and I wasn't used to it, so you were back home, and that's what I wanted in my life was peace. And then the second would be when Bob threw me in the closet and told me, give your heart to God. Lock me in the closet, you're not coming out, so you give your heart to God.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

I could see him doing that too. And so I prayed and prayed, and I felt peace. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

So I was like, okay, that's what I want.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

It didn't change me. I still had those internal upset ideas about myself as not being worthy, low self-esteem, all those things. So those had over years realize, like Tina said, why am I continuing to do this? When you can ask yourself that question, you can then make a change. Or when you can blame someone else, you know you're blaming, so you can then make it, and I could make those changes. It took a while, but I could make those changes because I was asking myself those questions.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

But you gotta just remember too. Grandma's house, yes, she made you feel peace. She was loving, caring, she gave you a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

But she had she yeah, we were we all remember that.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah, grandpa's grandpa wasn't the nice, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Grandpa abused me too. Yeah, so yeah. So I knew that. But just being near grandma, yeah, yeah. And yeah, looking back years, I realized grandma was abused too. But she had a genetic component of trying to find eternal peace through that struggle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

So like I'm I can remember going to their house, um, where it was, you know, it was one of the families we would visit from time to time. And I, you know, it was always I liked going there. We I can I remember Grandpa Sounds to be, he could be mean and he was a drunk and all that, but grandma sounds to be always always exuding that kindness and wanting peace.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

And she protected literally wanted to protect you, and you didn't feel that at home. Yeah, no, you had to protect yourself. Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

So thank you for sharing that. Um, you know, just thinking back to for me, um, childhood. It was Johnny. You know, Johnny was my like during the period he was in our lives. For me, that was the the one time we had some sense of stability. He was the first male that actually took a vested interest in me and gave a shit, is what I say. Um, so that was, and then of course, his death just was like too much for me. But but also thinking about our grand, you know, grandma and grandpa Hessel would go into their house. They always lived in the same place. We always like don't walk on the front lawn like really.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

I just felt out of place there. Oh I felt like we didn't belong there, right? I didn't either. Like we were just there because grandma and grandpa felt sorry for mom and us.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah, and it's a sort of- But I know they loved us. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

But we it didn't have to be a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

But we lived in their realm, right?

SPEAKER_04 12:05

No. Oh, yeah. We just kind of floated in and out.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

I felt dirty. I felt because of where I was from, this and maybe why grandma sons to be, it was almost like there was a connection.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

There was some normalcy.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

She understood us because I knew what she was going to with her husband. So you kind of felt in place, but also felt something you didn't get at home.

Hard Memories We Carry

SPEAKER_04 12:31

Interesting. Yeah. Okay, let's do a question. This kind of really goes on this. Uh, whoever wants to start, what are some experiences? You want Sherry to start? She just point, they saw that. She pointed right at you. So, what are some experiences? This would be really curious for me. Um, what are some experiences from our upbringing, and only share what you're comfortable sharing, that impacted you the most negative would be the sexual abuse as a girl.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

I then throughout my whole life was searching for a man that would love me, but I was still getting guys who would not love me, wouldn't do it in a way that so it took the same thing. It for me it it becoming a cop made me tougher and made me come to the point I'm not choosing that. But it also made it cold. You know, it wasn't until I met John that I was able to heal some. Some, yeah, you know, you still have those things, but yeah, it it you still carry it today. Sometimes you'll think of something, what the heck did I think of that for? Yeah. And then you realize that's the little child that's still ingrained. But yeah, raising my kids, though I'm doing something different.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, I think that too. And sometimes as our kids, especially my daughters, are getting we're growing up, sometimes you overcompensate. No, you can't do this, no, you can't do that. You know, and um I think they turned out fine, but you're going by your experiences, and so you want to make sure a hundred percent that nothing like that happens to them. You ain't going nowhere without nobody, and I want to know who and where and what. But I'm gonna have to say that we were surrounded by a lot of people that did care about us. It's just for whatever reason, in those days, that stuff wasn't out in the forefront. And it it wasn't that it was accepted, it's just that you just didn't talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

There weren't state agencies.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Because everybody now is like, oh my gosh, it's so much more prevalent. No, no, it is hidden people are talking. And I think the worst memory I have is in the A frame. Yes. And dad decided to start going to her. So I have a conversation with her later. I said, and I say this, and I say, you just make sure if you're on your period, you don't let him do anything so you don't get pregnant. So I mean that is not a conversation a sister should have with her sister. Yeah, maybe with her boyfriend.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

But we weren't even old enough, it wasn't a conversation we should know that. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:50

So interesting. I um the A-frame was a place I remember witnessing Jerry hit mom. Um I'll never forget that. Um, you know, for me, God, I you know, I think just some experiences from our upbringing that impacted me, which one? Like, really, it's really hard. Um, I don't know about you guys, but I there's periods of my childhood I don't remember. And I think there's a protective factor in that.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

I mean, you I could not tell you any grade school or anything I went to growing up. I honestly half don't ever remember the houses you guys tell me, you know. But I don't know if it's because I moved away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:41

I don't know, but and then the times that I do, it's like, oh, that's you know, you go, oh, that's odd. Why why was that? And why did that happen? I remember a lot of the just the mom's struggles. Now looking back, I didn't know they were her, but her, I remember we were at the motel where mom had a kitchen at and we each had our rooms. I remember the ambulance coming. Mom was in the fetal position, not eating, basically having a nervous breakdown. I remember that, and it just like, oh my gosh. Um, yeah, so thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Remember us getting fleas in our apartment. Getting what? Fleas. Sand fleas. Oh god. Because we were going to the beach. Yeah.

How Trauma Shows Up Today

SPEAKER_04 17:19

This is good. This will be a little bit of a shift. And we got two more questions and then closing questions. So your hot seats won't be hot for much longer. So thinking about those experiences of our shared childhood experiences, different views, but the same childhood, how did those experiences influence the way you live your life today? How you show up in the world today, maybe as a parent, as a grandparent, as a friend?

SPEAKER_00 17:46

I'm not a good friend.

SPEAKER_04 17:48

Oh, that's bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

No, no, I don't mean it that way. I don't always let people in.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

I, you know, is it you don't let people in or you're careful?

SPEAKER_00 17:59

It could be that.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

It's both, sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Because I mean, like, I have this beautiful pool area, and I'm like, well, it'd be great to have someone over. And then I think, oh, I I really don't know if I want them over, you know. So it's not that I don't like them or whatever, it's like it's just that little bubble. Like like like Abby talked, my youngest talked about that one time at school. There was this boy that kept getting in her bubble and she couldn't stand. Yeah, you know, and but that's just her personality. But I think that's the same thing. I I am an outgoing person. I feel I'm friendly, but I just don't let a lot of people that close for very long. It it's always at a distance.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

And has it always been that way for you?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Uh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like high school, probably my closest friends, but that was just I lived with them, so you you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 18:50

So um, so sidebar question. How many times did you or were you sent away, or did you move away from mom?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

When we moved to Arizona, it was during my middle well end of middle school, high school years.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

And where did you go?

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Um, I stayed in Casa Grande when mom moved away. I came to where?

SPEAKER_04 19:13

Back to Washington or Mom moved back to Washington. Because Johnny got sick?

SPEAKER_00 19:17

And no, he wasn't sick at the time. That's what I was.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

They just moved back. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

And I So you stayed. Who'd you stay with? I stayed with Carolyn at first and then Wynnette. And like halfway through my senior year, is when I moved back to Washington.

SPEAKER_04 19:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

And that was devastating to me because I left all my friends from high school. And was it because mom said you had to come back? No, it just, you know, living with other people is sometimes difficult. And I think they just got tired of someone else being there. And so, yeah, so I just moved back.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

You came back where were we living? Do you remember where we were living when you came?

SPEAKER_00 19:56

61st Street, no. Yeah. 61st Street. Yeah, 10th Street. Oh, okay. And that's when this little girl set me up.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

Set you up.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Robert.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

Oh, you did that?

SPEAKER_01 20:08

It was actually from church. Someone knew someone that knew someone and new. Oh my god. Okay, so we have to help you get away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:21

So we're talking about husband number one from this one. Our and all of our pickers were broken for a bit. So, you know, Rob was a real treat. Yeah, yeah. Ooh, Rob. He took me. I'll just share a snippet. Um, I was a kid. I was what, 12, 13, and he took me to this guy's house. I don't know if I've ever shared this with you.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, I think you did.

Moving Away And Broken Pickers

SPEAKER_04 20:43

And he was an Amway guy, I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 20:46

And uh we the guy took turns with us.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Well, the reason she finally left is I stayed the night to watch their baby so they could go out. They go out, she goes to bed, he says he's watching tea. Now, mind you, I'm asleep on the couch. He then starts trying to put his hands down my pits. I would and I'm like, I was proud of myself that I'm like pushed him away and went and woke Tina up. Now, had it not been Tina, but Tina was my sister. She knew. So I knew she wouldn't look down on me for saying so. Wow. Then that was it.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Yay!

SPEAKER_04 21:25

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh so did did you uh and again, friends, remember moving was our thing as kids. That's what we did. We moved, whether it was all over Tacoma to ocean shores, all over ocean shores. I know ocean shores are small, but we lived in multiple Arizona. We moved, that's what we did. So I'm just asking my sisters, how many times did you stay somewhere when mom did one of her moves? How about you?

SPEAKER_01 21:50

It was always with Judy, and at least three or four times. And one time I actually just went up to visit Judy. And when they brought us back to Ocean Shores, we had moved. The apartment was empty.

unknown 22:06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

I was like Abandoned and and Judy couldn't get a hold of the phone that's disconnected. There wasn't cell phone.

SPEAKER_04 22:14

No, this is this is the the late 70s, friends.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Two weeks later that she finally contacts us, oh, we moved to Arizona.

SPEAKER_04 22:23

Oh, oh my gosh. Yeah, Bob talks about when grandpa's house to be brought him back one time. Same thing. Mom had moved, and these moves when we moved weren't like, oh, dad got a new job, or mom got a it was eviction notices usually, or mom running from an abuser or some chaos.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:40

So my I only remember uh and I don't know why it was, but I stayed with Judy and Al for a little while. I went to Fawcett. Um I remember uh that I don't know why though. Why we you know who knows? Okay. Sherry, what are some of your experiences from our upbringing that impacted, or sorry, how did those experiences influence the way you show up in life now?

SPEAKER_01 23:06

The way I show up in life now, uh I'm a fighter. I keep fighting against what I had growing up and not wanting it for my kids. Yeah. Unfortunately, that didn't happen, meaning one of my kids or two of my girls were abused by their stepfather. Not to the point that I was, but to the point it affected them a great deal. And again, the family on their step their stepdad's side was from the old fashioned they then blamed them, blamed Del for saying anything or that she was over, you know, you know, stretching, that it was her fault, she was a rebellious young girl, you know, and then blame me. Yet it wasn't it was because I brought my daughter to counseling because something was going on, and she told the counselor. Yet they feel because of my past that I put it on them to feel that they were being abused. So I didn't see it. But then again, I looked back, and even my daughter said, You did see it, because you took me away, cut off the visitations until we could figure out what was going on, because there was a lot of arguments. But looking back now, I even know you know the girls up the street, their best friends, would go over to visit, because I was divorced at the time, and they would even say, they just felt uncomfortable over there, and that made me go, Well, why? You know.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

And I wish I would have. But I mean, kids are good at hiding, your mind is good at hiding.

SPEAKER_04 24:53

Um pause. Um grooming is a thing. Um, the behavior of the adults is real, you know. All of us are survivors, and I'm a certain you know, the man that abused me the most was a deacon in a church and just the a pillar of the community. They're really good. Yeah, so yeah. But you are a fighter, sister. I know you struggle. We have we've all struggled, but you know, I don't I share this as much as I can. That sign right there that says he believed he could so he did is from you. You've always, both of you have, um, but you've always believed in me, and and you know, I always say you you and Vern or whoever made the decision, you together at the time, put your house up to get me out and get me a start in life. And and I'm just one example of that. I've been on I went on ride-alongs with you when you were a cop and I saw how you interacted with people, the humanness you brought to the table is pretty awesome. I just always remember you always carried stuffed animals in your car. You always did that. And so I imagine the child, because I can only imagine calls you went on where you saw firsthand what you experienced as a child, and bringing something like that little stuffed animal in your eyes with your healing voice, like wow. So you are a fighter and you're you're you show up kind and loving. Yeah. Most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

It's up to us.

New Beliefs About Worth And Love

SPEAKER_04 26:18

Yeah. All right. Last question.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

We're shifting gears. What's something you believe about life today that you didn't always believe?

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Well, I I never believed that I would have a man that loves me 150%. I know my husband is 300 degrees different than anything I ever thought I'd deserve.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

Yeah. Traff's pretty alright. He really we give him a lot of shit, and like we were talking about him and how, you know, laissez faire, and but I know his heart is like yours. Like you said, you know, we we joke around because Travis he works in construction, and so he has an apartment that's easier for him to work from, and like we joke around, like she's never has to worry, he has to cheat on because he wouldn't know what to do. But the reality is because he loves you, whole. Yeah. Yeah. So that's cool. Sherry. What's something you believe about life today that you didn't always believe?

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Kind of along the same line, but they I never felt I was worth that. But it like I said, safety of grandma's house, being locked in the closet, and when Tom brought me to church at 14 years old, I gave my heart to the Lord. I am loved, you know. But the world has people in it that will make you feel unloved. So you gotta find for me, I had to find it within myself, not within what's happened to me. And yeah, I just as a child, I just felt this is the way life is for me. Yeah, it was normal for us. Yeah, I'm not worth anything more.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

I always appreciated your strong bond with Tom, Uncle Tom. You you guys were had a real strong bond. And for those that have read my book, it it is the uncle that our mom married, but there's a whole story to it.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

But he's the one that he knew about Jerry. I told him, and he believed Grandma Trickle now. No, she never did until the day she died. He defended me with her when the kids weren't allowed to go down.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

He did.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

He knew when me and Bob went to confront him with Jerry and tell him I knew and try and get him to own it. That he did not take their side. He was a memorized that never.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

I years ago had decided to send him a letter before he died.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

Jerry.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yes, because I knew I would have to heal. It's it's up to him what he does. I never heard back, which I never did, but I felt better. But then first time we were bringing the girls here for a vacation, he was still alive. And I'm like, okay, I have this dilemma. Do I introduce them to my dad so they can at least know? So I was like back and forth, back and forth. Well, it's easy to say the Lord answered my prayer because he passed away before we came. Okay. So I that was the Lord saying no, they don't need to meet him.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

Hey, I I wanna I want to ask both of you, as women who are survivors of childhood sexual abuse, and now mothers and grandmothers, if a young mom is out there listening right now, what advice would you give her to maybe have the balance? Like you want your kids to be able to go out in the world and explore, but you also because there are still lots of predators out there. There's lot what's your advice to a young mom of a child to be the best mom to prevent it as best they can?

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Oh my.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Well, it's so different because all kids are different, but I think it starts from a young age. They have to trust you to be able to kind of listen to what you're telling them. Um, I mean, you don't want to scare them into thinking they can't go or do anything. But all we did was if we didn't know the parents, you didn't go there.

unknown 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Um, and that doesn't mean hi, this is Sally and Jeff. No, we have to physically know the parents. Um, because it's easy to know the kids. So we always any time would say, if they want to come here, that's fine. They can come here all they want until we know the parents. And there was probably three or four that we would let. But us and the girls, we always had a password.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

And if they didn't say the password, mama was there. I didn't care.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Abby did it one time, she didn't her phone wasn't charged. She just went to the park with her friends. I said, You okay? No answer. Didn't get anything. I'm like, You okay? Next thing I know, there's a text from another phone. This is Abby's friend. Nope. I'm at the park. Yeah. I'm at the basketball court. Abby's like, what are you doing here? I'm like, let's go. We're going home.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Sure. She took her phone knowing it was dead.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

That was it.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

So having protective factors, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Protective factors, not being overbearing, but letting them know that it's just because you care. But there are consequences if they don't follow that. Yeah. And then eventually they get their own defensive um mechanisms up and their heightened um, you know, knowledge of what's going on around them and just talking to them, I think.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

So I'm hearing a couple things. Um, building a relationship with your child where they feel safe talking to you, and also having boundaries with where they go and who they interact with. Sherry?

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Yeah, and I agree with that. And like I can look back and see, even with the boys, who's the man in their life. And that's really important. I mean, the man for girls gives them the feeling of of individuality, um, their own, like you said, protective, but also the feeling that I don't need to have this man. So then they also don't accept things that don't feel appropriate.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it costs or feel like they have to stay.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

It can be with a family, it can be a neighbor, it can be anybody. So if the man in their life is treating you in a certain way, then they're gonna choose men that treat them in a certain way. So it's important the man that you bring around your girls.

SPEAKER_04 33:19

Oh god, so important. Oh well, you know, my own story is I was kind of on the same thing of what I learned with mom. I was going to, but I remember thinking, man, what am I showing my son?

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Right.

Building A Better Life Now

SPEAKER_04 33:30

You know, and it's important that we as the adults model the behavior we want our kids to have. I think you guys have done that pretty well. I know you judge yourself in different ways, but given our set of cards, the fact that we're all sitting here today with the lives we have, even with stuff, like we all got stuff, but oh my gosh, I've always admired each of you in your own way of parenting. I want you to know that. You know, do I agree with it all? And did I parent a little different? Sure, but you know, you you did the best you you did good, right? You like I remember you all your kids were always home, they had kids over there. I know you were mindful about who they spent time with, and and while even though I wasn't in Ohio, I kind of knew that, like, and and I think that's that's huge given our past. Yeah. So okay, here we go. Final two questions. So this is kind of you can just maybe say this a different way, but if someone's listening to this in any way, what would you say to someone who's trying to build a better life now? Maybe they have a path like ours, which was crazy, or maybe they they're they've had different struggles, drugs or alcohol, abusive relationships, whatever it is. Who's what would you say to someone who's listening to this and they're trying to build a better life now? What would you say to them to give them some hope?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

I would just tell them, um you're way stronger than you think you are. Make sure you reach out to that one person that you feel you can say anything to, and have them be your companion. Have them in your sounding board. Like, hey, you think because sometimes when we're in these situations, you make quick decisions instead of thinking, and that's usually what gets you off path. Just slow down, breathe, and don't make quick judgments. That's or disagree. That's really true.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

I mean, I think about my own path. I had to stop reacting and start being proactive, right? Take a minute, think about it. Have like you said, have someone that you trust to talk to. I talk about your circle of influence, those four or five people you communicate regularly. I had to switch mine up, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Yeah, and that's the thing too. You can't keep doing the same thing you were doing, it's not gonna change.

SPEAKER_04 35:55

No. Right. Yeah. Sister.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

For me, as far back as I can remember, I mean, it's kind of the same thing. But when I would do something and I knew it wasn't what I wanted to do, but it was a quick thing I was doing, I would start writing down how I felt.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

And just start writing down. And then I could look at it and go, Well, why am I feeling that way? Why do I feel I need that? And writing down how I feel gets it out. Even if it's about my past, it it gets it out. If I kept it in, then I'm I'm still repeating a pattern. Um, but yeah, because then whether getting it out to a friend, and for me, I was isolating myself. Don't isolate yourself, but make sure the group you're around is someone that you can trust to divulge how you're feeling.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

And sometimes, uh like you said, changing your friends up. Make friends with where you want to be.

SPEAKER_04 36:59

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

So I d it could be just a little step up. It doesn't have to be a huge jump right at once. Just a little step up to where you want to be. Yeah. Hang out with that person.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

Yeah, you talking about you know, talking about journaling is is like I've got literally decades worth of journals that helped me, like you're talking about. Just write down how that makes you feel. Doesn't mean you have to change it in that moment, but because I started journaling, I started seeing patterns in my relationships and in the decisions I was making that made me help me to go, oh, oh wow, no, this okay, I need to make some changes.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

So or like you said before making quick emotional decisions. Well, I'm gonna wait. Let's all decide tomorrow. Go home and write down what you were gonna do.

SPEAKER_04 37:45

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

And then go, where is that gonna get me? And and that helped me a lot, change a lot of decisions.

SPEAKER_04 37:53

This this isn't a hit on both Stephanie's I was with, but I was with two Stephanie's, and it was actually through journaling uh when I was with Stephanie number two that I had a journal. It's in my journal over there, and I was reflecting back to decades earlier, it was a decade-ish or more earlier, and I had this journal where I was like, Oh, Stephanie this and Stephanie that, and then I had the current Stephanie, Stephanie this, and it was like, oh, oh, I I'm looking at them. Yeah, I'm pointing out, and it was an aha moment for me, kind of like you guys have been talking about, where I had to, you know what? I'm repeating the same thing again and again that I learned, which okay that, but I can make a conscious decision to make a change.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

And you can't see that until you start evaluating. Yeah, you could talk to counselors, which is great, but a good counselor is gonna be having you evaluate your.

Questions For Dr. D And Reflections

SPEAKER_04 38:44

Yes, yeah, exactly. Good. Okay. This is this is dangerous, friends, but I'm gonna do it anyway. What's something you've always wanted to ask me? Oh god. If there's ever a time when I'm worried it's now.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

You know, I really don't have anything. I don't give a shit. No, I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

Oh god. No, but I did want to. And she gets up and walks out.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

I did want to ask somebody. So, in all your training, what do you think the reason is that her and I like did not reach out to drugs and alcoholics? Yeah, yeah, I drank, but I'm not an alcoholic. And you and Bobby were the two that had the issues. So, what do you think would be the difference in that?

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Uh different coping mechanisms used to cope with our past um environment access, you know. The reality is addiction doesn't care. Right. Right? Like we are here we are, we all four have the same history. You two didn't, me and Bob did.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

But we did. Oh, we had an addiction to mint. That's what that's what I was saying, a different different coping mechanism. And that's an addiction that caused me to my body in ways I didn't feel yeah comfortable, I didn't like, but trying to find so that was our addiction.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

And Sherry said something that I've struggled with myself, never feeling good enough, never feeling drugs were and and the sexual abuse. You know, for me, the drugs were that coping mechanism.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

For me, that's the friendship thing. Uh if they really knew who I am, they wouldn't like me. Yeah. Why would they want to be my friend? Yeah. And to have a good friend, they gotta know all of you. They gotta know it all. So to divulge that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:45

Yeah, and you you said something earlier that uh I didn't want to be dismissive because I've really forced myself to try to bring more people in. I have that same wall, that trust, and you know, what what do they really want? Right. You know, what what what's going on? And and it's been a difficult thing to really push myself, like we do Monday night dinners. You've been here and we've had and you know, bring people in to kind of bring that wall down. Um, okay, so uh you asked me, good, what do you got?

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Oh boy. I guess I mean, do you remember us hide or me bringing you in the closet of the A-frame and we would hide there and play when there was beatings going on downstairs?

SPEAKER_04 41:29

No.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Yeah, I often wondered how he felt as a child.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

Yeah, no, I I honestly like I remember ocean shores. I remember Bruno, I remember walking around. Um, the only time I the A-frame is when I did see I came out of there was a landing or something, and I it was in the middle of the night, and Jerry hit mom. Um, interesting though, that I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

See, I could always hear when he'd come home where they'd start arguing, so I'd say, David, come on, let's go play. And we'd go in this the little closet thing and just play cars.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

And they're like closets all along, like.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yeah, it was like a long ating type thing or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 42:09

Yeah, no. Like I just, you know, and you too, yeah. It's interesting, you know. I have all these memories. I have a lot of memories of us in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

I and I don't know why. Maybe I spent more time with Bob. I remember him being really vicious with you. Um I don't have a lot of memories of us. We lived in Parkland in Spanaway at the Roy Y with Johnny in that trailer. Um you guys used to dress me up or something. I kind of remember, maybe you know, um, but it's it's interesting. I don't yeah, no, I don't remember that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

And so that's the thing is I don't I remember us together vaguely.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

But what I do remember is together there was like this bubble when we were together. So maybe it's it's so deep down because the other negative parts are so strong. Stronger. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

You know, but yeah, it's because yeah, me and Tina. People ask about the childhood, and I'm like, well, I remember Bobby'd beat on me.

SPEAKER_04 43:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

I'd beat on Cherry, and we'd all beat on David.

SPEAKER_04 43:22

Yeah, yeah. I got blamed for everything. Yeah, I remember going um ocean shores to the shop right or whatever it was called, and I had that big jacket, and they'd send me in, and they had to bob, or someone had ripped out the liner, and I'd steal all this candy and I'd bring it home to my great siblings, and they would take it all. I wouldn't get anything, and then if I got if someone got caught, it was me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Like I I also remember times when mom and dad wouldn't be home and we'd be peeling potatoes and eating them raw because that would be all we had.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

I remember um jello packets.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:01

Um mustard and ketchup sandwiches. Yeah. What you know, we spend a lot of time, a lot. And I remember roaming around night ocean shores. Yeah, so did we go to bed? Like how? Because I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Eventually we would, but there was no one.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Because Bob would go do his thing. So what would you guys do?

SPEAKER_01 44:23

We'd hang, well, even you, we'd hang at the bowling alley and that we're going to be able to do it. We'd cook food on a little easy basis. Yeah, when we lived it there. Actual food. Yes. Until it burned or caught on fire.

SPEAKER_04 44:33

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Oh my goodness. Yeah.

Final Takeaways And Closing

SPEAKER_04 44:37

Well, this has been good. Okay, we did it.