Roots And Reinvention - w/guest Rolf Williams

A lot of people think a “successful” business is one that expands nonstop, chases scale, and looks impressive on paper. We see something different when we talk with Rolf Williams, an Ellensburg native and the owner of Jerrol's, a long-running local business with deep roots that stretch back to 1947. Rolf shares how a store can survive for generations by staying flexible about what it sells while staying stubbornly consistent about who it serves.

We dig into the real history of Jerrol's, from soda fountain beginnings and a drive-through diner era to the textbook years and the modern shift into retail, online ordering, and business-to-business office supply delivery. Along the way, Rolf explains the mindset that makes adaptation possible: continuous improvement, clear values, and a refusal to treat customers like transactions. If you care about small-town entrepreneurship, independent bookstore survival, and competing with Amazon through service, this conversation is packed with practical insight.

The most meaningful part gets personal. As a father of an adult child with profound autism, Rolf talks about autism acceptance, disability, and how isolation can quietly shrink a family’s world when support is hard to find. We also talk about leadership, hiring, and what it takes to give people real opportunity without assumptions, plus advice for parents who have just received a diagnosis and don’t know where to start.

If you want more grounded conversations on community, business leadership, and building a life that lasts, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

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Transcript

Welcome And Local Book Plug

Speaker 0:09

So welcome to Deep Dive with Dr. D. Uh I have with me uh Rolf Williams, uh Ellensburg native, yes, yeah, right, yeah, uh, and owner of Jerrol's. So if anyone knows Ellensburg, you know Jerrol's, right? Been around a long time, and we'll talk about that. Um, it's a beautiful Sunday morning in Ellensburg. It's my plan to do this, of course. Do my Monday morning prep and then probably go on a little motorcycle ride. So that'll be good. Me too. Yeah, of course. Yeah, that's right. You ride. Yeah. Um, so, but before that, we're gonna do a little show here. Uh, so thank you for joining us. And um I want I I forgot to ask you, so this is okay, this is good. You sell my book in your store. Yeah thank you. You that's very kind of you. Have I given you a signed copy?

Speaker 1 1:01

Personally, um, I don't know that you have. Although I feel bad because did we give you a copy of our book? Oh, and I thought about it, but I didn't know.

Speaker 1:10

I don't know it.

Speaker 1 1:10

Well, I will the next time I see you then.

Speaker 1:13

Oh, guess what? You know what? Oh, this is perfect. This is perfect. What? What? Okay, I have two, I have two versions of this.

Speaker 1 1:24

Right, you have a new edition.

Speaker 1:25

You you were kind enough to host my book right out of the gate. So this is an original. Oh, sweet.

Speaker 1 1:34

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:34

Yeah, so that's for you.

Speaker 1 1:36

This is great. Thank you. Have you read it yet? You know, I have not. I know Taylor has read it, and you just had nothing but great things. And um, yeah.

Speaker 1:44

Um check it out. I will. Yeah, you'll enjoy it. Um, and I'd love a copy of Jerrol's. That would be super cool.

Speaker 1 1:51

See you the next time I see you. All right, perfect. It won't be long.

Speaker 1:54

And that's where I like to start. So if you if you want a copy of my book, here's the man right here. I always say it's it's locally at Jerrol's and Pearl Street Books. And I always say this: if you want to buy it online, you can locally at Jerrol's and they'll ship it right to your door.

Speaker 1 2:10

But it's also deliver it to you for free. Yeah, we do same days, free delivery.

Meet Rolf Williams And His Why

Speaker 2:15

Okay, there you go. So you can get a copy of my book there or wherever. It's also an ebook and an audiobook. So there's enough of that. Um, I always like to start my guests um with introducing themselves. So you and I know each other. We've I've known you for a long time. I see you almost every day. We say hi. Um, but for our guests out there who may watch this later or listening to it now, who are you? You can and share whatever you want, personally, professionally.

Speaker 1 2:46

So, as you mentioned, I'm an Ellensburg native. So grew up in Ellensburg. Um, I who am I? I am the father of an adult child who has profound autism. I am the current I say caretaker of a third-generation business in Ellensburg. I'm a motorcyclist, I'm a backcountry skier. Um and I am a person who's just trying to be a better person. And would like to share kindness and love throughout the world, which is anyway.

Speaker 3:24

Yeah, which is good right now. Needed more than ever.

Speaker 1 3:27

Oh, good grief. Yes. And I I guess I'm a person who just wants to do the right thing. And I'm not afraid to speak my mind and to say what I think is right and to try to live my life in alignment with that.

Speaker 3:38

Yeah. We were, you know, I went to the dance last night with Katrina and Rigadoons. Yeah, Rigadoon. That was fun. And we were just sitting at the table just talking about how that is, you know, we were enjoying that. And we actually sat at that table last night with some friends who we all know each other at different levels. Let's let's start doing a dinner, let's find ways to connect with each other on deeper levels because that's where the power is in life and living. And and I want to say to you, you know, I I've just lived in Owensburg a little amount of time compared to you since 2001. Um, but I've always appreciated how you've really championed causes, right? Whatever the cause is. And you your employees that you have, you you got a good picker. Whatever process you do and whatever training you give, it shows. Like, because I go to Weinger's every morning, right, for coffee, and and I'll walk through, or me and Katrina go through your employees always greet people, they always ask if you need help finding something, and it's not just that, like Taylor, like we just love Taylor, he's a great kid, we've gotten to know him. Um, so whatever you're doing in that realm, keep doing it because it's it shows. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. So um, you're married. Yes, yes, yes. How long have you been married?

Speaker 1 4:57

I've been married for 30 years to my dad, Michelle, who is also co-owner of Jerrol's.

Speaker 5:02

Yeah, okay. And so then you have your son, and one of our questions, April is autism awareness month, correct? Yes, awareness and acceptance. Yes, yeah, very uh acceptance, good. And then you have a daughter that you said lives in Tri-Cities? Correct. Yeah, and you're a grandfather. That's twice over. Twice over. Yeah, how old are the grandchildren?

Speaker 1 5:23

Oh gosh, you're really gonna put me on the spot, aren't you? So I've got a third grader and a kindergartner.

Speaker 5:28

Oh yeah. And isn't that a great role?

Speaker 1 5:33

Yeah, it is. Although I I gotta tell you, I keep waiting for them to get to a point um where we can do more things together, motorcycling and things like that. Because they're young. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but um, I mean, they're amazing. Of course. Um they're they're bilingual, their um first language is Spanish, which is so cool. Wow. Um super cool. Yeah, yeah, it really is.

Speaker 6:01

Do you know Spanish?

Speaker 1 6:02

Um, I know a little bit, I know enough to know that I don't know what they're saying.

Speaker 6:06

Yeah, that it always reminds my time in the military in Germany. They teach you just enough to get you home or you know, get you get some food. So, but good. So thank you for that introduction. Let's see. So uh fourth generation? It will be fourth. Um, it's the next accession, which is pending. Gerald. And um uh we'll we'll talk about that. You're married, you have children, a grandfather. Um, how how would your friends, and I know you're a humble guy, you just are, so this might be a little, but give it a shot. How would your friends describe you?

Speaker 1 6:47

Probably somebody who likes to argue. Um argue or debate. Debate. Yeah. And I'll always take the opposite side of whatever. Just to take the opposite side of the other. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife calls me a contrarian. Um, probably right.

Speaker 7:05

Well, I think it's important to look at opposing views. I I have students in one class this quarter, they do a writing, they do a couple of these. Uh, one of the writings I have them do is to write about a generation other than their own. Right? So you can get some sense of a differing view, a differing look on life. Do you think that's accurate for you? Wanting to have that?

Speaker 1 7:32

I'm very curious. Um I hadn't thought about that, but I I do like different perspectives. I love history. Um yeah, that that's an interesting concept. And I think the other thing that people would say about me is I'm a doer. I tend to show my uh things by doing and making things happen.

Speaker 7:54

I I nod my head because I see that. I see you doing through your business a lot. You and I don't know each other real well personally. We've gotten to we're gonna get to know each other today, but I would imagine that's that's pretty accurate in your personal life too. Because I see it at the store. You and and so we'll get into it with some questions here. Um, so thank you for the introduction.

Speaker 1 8:16

Thank you for inviting me.

Music Talk And T Shirt Detour

The Hidden Work Of Longevity

Speaker 8:17

Yeah, this is good. This is good. All right, let's do a question. Okay, okay. Are we gonna talk about the t-shirts? Oh, yeah, we are gonna talk about the t-shirts. So I had on a different shirt uh uh for a variety of reasons, who cares? But he took his jacket off and he's got on a Led Zeppelin shirt. I'm gonna love music. I'm like, oh god, I gotta go change. So I put on my the record company, which is a band out of Wisconsin Blues Rock. Uh it is rock your favorite genre? What's your favorite genre? I like a lot of stuff. Yeah, rock, classic, rock and blues. Same. Yeah. Very good. So there we go. So we're we're a little more matching now. Very good. And I have albums from both up there. All right, good. What's one thing people don't see about running a long-standing, soon-to-be fourth generation local business like Jerrol's? What don't they see? What don't they know?

Speaker 1 9:16

Well, there's a ton of things. Um, and it being fourth generation doesn't change what you don't know about what it takes to run a business. Um, but I I what I would say the there's two things I want to mention. One is just how deep our roots run. So this is multi-generational, it's a little bit different, but um, I mean, our roots in Ellensburg are very deep, and the number of people we've been able to help and impact is very deep. And that we see four generations shopping with us at once. Wow. Um, wow. And that that those roots, um, and Jerrol's is all I mean, all businesses are are kind of like a plant. I mean, it takes a lot to feed and water and to maintain them and so forth. And just how deep those roots run through me personally, I mean, I've known nothing other than Jerrol's. And Jerrol's has been incredible for me and my family.

Speaker 10:09

Have you ever had another job?

Speaker 1 10:10

Yes, I have.

Speaker 10:11

You did? What'd you do?

Speaker 1 10:11

I was an independent sales rep. Oh, okay. In the art supply industry, it was amazing. Okay. Super good. And for one, yeah. Oh, yeah, traveled all over the place. And for one day, I was a what they call a jobber for vitamins at Weimart. Okay. Horrible. I quit in the same day. It was the worst thing I ever did in my life. Okay, okay. But yeah, um, it's just back to Gerald. I I don't I can't separate myself from Jerrol's. It's just one and the same.

Speaker 10:36

It's your identity.

Speaker 1 10:36

Yeah. Because it's your family. Right? It's just it, whatever it is, it runs steep. And the other thing I would say is that um long ago we fell out of love with our what and we fell in love with our who. So we're not focused on the things we sell as much as we are focused on the people we sell them to.

Speaker 11:00

Okay.

Speaker 1 11:00

We're always looking at the who and looking at things always from their perspective. Not how to be a better bookstore, but how to help the people who walk through our door more. Um, which has made everything possible.

Speaker 11:16

Interesting.

Speaker 1 11:17

Which is uh just a unique perspective on how we come at everything.

Speaker 11:24

It's not a transaction.

Speaker 1 11:25

Oh, it's absolutely not a transaction. It's a lifetime relationship, actually multi-generational is how we look at it.

Speaker 2 11:31

Yeah.

Speaker 1 11:31

And that's actually what what we do is we um create relationships with our team and clients to earn their trust over a lifetime.

Speaker 11:41

I imagine that feels pretty special, I guess, is the word I think when you see a family come in with four generations at the same time, and you've you've known that family forever.

Speaker 1 11:53

That's um and they've known us, yeah, and we've been different to each one of them. But of course, we're different to everybody, everyone has their own relationships.

Speaker 12:00

Sure, sure, sure.

Geralds Origin Story And Name

Speaker 1 12:01

And what did Gerald start as? On the soda phone. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah. In the same location, on the same piece of dirt. Same piece of dirt. Right. Now, not in the same location, but the same piece of dirt.

Speaker 12:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1 12:12

Wow. Yeah. And then it's always been our dirt.

Speaker 12:14

So reader's digest version is just the evolution from soda fountain to what Jerrol's is today.

Speaker 1 12:21

So I'm gonna go back a step because the the foundation of Jerrol's really came from my grandparents, Don and Irene Williams. And they had a son with um cerebral palsy, and she was an immigrant from Norway.

Speaker 12:36

What year are we talking here?

Speaker 1 12:37

We're talking 1930s. Okay, go ahead. Gerald started 1947. Um, so we have a mother of a what was called a spastic child who was an immigrant and whose husband kept losing his job because the business owners kept screwing it up. And so he had to keep finding new work and new work. And so she decided to take ownership of their lives by creating a store in their front yard. So their house was like five feet away from where they built the store, it was in their front yard. Okay, and right where it is on the same dirt, right on that right where the stop sign is. So where the store is. So I mean, there's probably way less traffic than there is now, but it was the main road between Spokane and Seattle. In Seattle, it's probably a two-day trip. Yeah, and so it was a big deal. And when you got to Ellensburg, you'd stop and you would want aspirin and some mead in the bathroom, and that's what we provided.

unknown 13:32

Wow.

Speaker 1 13:33

Um and so an original rest stop. Yeah, sort of, yeah. Sort of like an early 7-Eleven as well, a convenience store and so forth. And the name Jerrol's comes from three letters from my father's name, Jerry, J-E-R, and three letters for my namesake, Uncle Rolf, R-O-L, and apostrophe S for ownership. And that was my grandma taking ownership of her situation.

Speaker 2 13:58

Wow.

Speaker 1 13:59

Um, and we were a soda fountain. Yep. And um, people like Susie Rogers, who lives here in Ellensburg, she used to live on the same block we did. And her mom would bake pies each morning, and they would bring them down to grandpa, and grandpa would sell the pies at the restaurant. And to begin with, we didn't have hot food. We had donuts, cold sandwiches, coffee, um, and then we had what they call sundry items, which were books and comic books. And then um we expanded that building, and then in 1950, we actually built a new building, we moved the house, okay, and um the mobile gas station. So when we started, the car was not dominant. No. When 1950, the car became dominant, and there was a gas station on every corner, literally. Okay, and so mobile gas station wanted our corner, and they gave grandpa enough of a lease that he could move his house, build a new store, which is what we call the old store, which is what you walk into when you come off of our east.

Speaker 14:58

Yes.

Speaker 1 14:59

Oh, that's not true. It's in the middle, it's the middle piece. So we kind of have three pods. Yeah, anyway, the middle pod is the original store.

Speaker 15:06

Was the gas station where the gravel lot is now?

Speaker 1 15:08

The gas station was our parking lot between us and central. Okay. Um, and then we just expanded so we got more into school supplies, and we had a drive-through diner, is what we were at that point. What? Oh my god. And so you can still, if you ask, we'll show you pictures where you can see the diner and we'll show you where it was, and you can see where the hood was for the grill and everything.

Speaker 15:32

What year were you born? I was born 65. 65. So we're getting close to that period when you were born, or are we in that period now?

Speaker 1 15:39

No, no, no, no. We're in the 50s. Yep. We're in the 50s. And so then that expanded three times, and we kept getting more into school supplies. You had um the GI. So the history of Jerrol's is really the history of the United States and the history of Washington State. So my grandpa came to Ellensburg because of Hanford. He did their laundry. Okay, part of it.

Speaker 2 16:00

Wow.

Textbooks Shift And Modern Geralds

Speaker 1 16:01

And it was so massive that they needed a central location to send it throughout the entire state. Oh my god. Um, and so that's what he did in part. And so Hanford brought him to Ellensburg. Oh my gosh. The GIs coming back from the wars is what allowed Jerrol's to grow as Central Group. Because we became more and more oriented towards school supplies in 1964. My dad came back. Um, well, he was in the Korean conflict and then got a job in Seattle repoing vehicles from Boeing. Boeing was slowing down and they wanted to turn off the lights when they moved to Seattle. Yeah. Um, and then he came back, but he hated food, he hated that whole concept. So we went out of the food business and we got into the textbook business. And so that big shift happened.

Speaker 16:46

And that was because of your grandfather.

Speaker 1 16:48

Um, so my grandfather left. Yep, my dad took it over, he got rid of food, oh, you're good. We started selling textbooks. Oh my god. And so that was one of our biggest changes, and that's probably where we initially started to fall out of love with our what. Because it wasn't like we were seeing see the difference. We could shift because we weren't married to being the best hamburger.

Speaker 17:09

Yes.

Speaker 1 17:10

We were married to what is our who want. Yeah, what what is missing in their lives? And so we started selling textbooks, and we were the first ones to sell used textbooks in this particular environment. Um, and we did textbooks for a long, long time. That's what I grew up into is the textbook world. And then about 10 years ago, textbooks changed tremendously for all kinds of reasons. Yeah. Um, and we left the textbook industry. Um, and we sort of replaced it a little bit with RC and a lot with other things, and we really got into the business world. And so we have three channels we sell through currently. We have retail, which is what most people are familiar with, um, and then we have our online Geralds.com, and there's also office.geralds.com. Sure, sure. That's our business leg, and that's where businesses can order from us. Shows up. So they order by four, it shows up at midnight, we deliver it with our own team to them the next day.

Speaker 2 18:07

Wow.

Speaker 1 18:08

And so, like all the supplies you see for janitorial at the event center, the paper towels, the toilet paper, the hand soap, the sanitizer, that's us.

Speaker 18:16

That's all Jerrol's.

Speaker 1 18:17

Anything in the correction facility, gloves, um, toilet paper, etc., that's all us. County offices, that's all us.

Speaker 18:24

Wow.

Speaker 1 18:25

Um, and then of course, all the other businesses like who carefully.

Speaker 18:28

Who's created that channel?

Speaker 1 18:30

Um that you well, I mean, I was involved in all of it. Um it, I mean, there was a team member who was very interested in that. Okay. And a lot of it is just seeing the opportunity that's in the world. Um, and that's as an entrepreneur, that's the hardest thing is what to say no to because there's so many things you could be doing. Yeah, but um, we had a vendor who was into office supplies. Okay, and we had a sales rep with that vendor who is very much into trying to help people get into the office supply world. And they were really set up to support independent office supply um stores in this particular niche. So we're competing against Office Depot, Staples, Amazon, and they were uniquely set up to help us do that. And this is at the same time Suncadia was coming, okay, and Sunkadia wanted to be able to order online. They said, We'll order from you, but it has to be online. Yeah. So that forced me to figure out office.gerals.com. Okay. This vendor was there, they supported with their infrastructure, and so there we go.

Speaker 19:38

That's pretty awesome. And so there's a Yeah, and I I uh, you know, I've said this to you, and I want to say it here. I've always admired you and obviously your family, your parents, grandparents learning this for adapting along the way, right? The evolution of Jerrol's because many many business owners might have said, you know, the food thing, be like, nah, we're just gonna close up. Right. But your dad's like, no, we're gonna shift gears. And I've personally watched you shift gears over the last 10 years. You know, I teach at Central and the bookstore on campus. It's just like it's not a bookstore anymore. Right. You know, everything's online, it's an ebook or no book at all, or whatever the case may be. And I've always, you know, as a fellow business owner, entrepreneur, guy, I've admired you and Corey, like the marine of Weinegers and Geralds, and people that live in Ellensburg know that. Like, I'm like, wow, that is that is really cool, really innovative. You brought in Mark Pickerell, and and I go there now and I can buy albums and pens. Katrina can get her preschool stuff, and I can get an album. Like, that's that's meaningful stuff, and a lot of people, you know, would just say, I'm good. I'm gonna wrap it up. Your family and you have said, No, we're gonna adapt.

Speaker 1 20:48

Well, and that I think that's everyone wants to know the secret of being a third generation business. Don't stop, don't quit. Yeah, I mean that's that's it. You just don't quit it. No matter what, you don't quit. COVID comes, you don't quit. You find a way through it. The obstacle is the way.

Competing With Amazon Through Service

Speaker 21:02

Yeah. And it's just been over uh 10 years, the anniversary of Jerrol's and White's. 11 years, I think, is a blast. Okay, yeah, super cool. Well, thank you for all that. I I think that's you know, we it's always cool to know the stories behind the people and the places, you know, in small town Ellensburg, Jerrol's, like I said, anyone who's came to school here or lived here any amount of time, the Geralds. Everyone knows Jerrol's.

Speaker 1 21:29

So that is actually not true. Okay, really. I mean, there's probably 30% of the population to Kidas County that are actually in their store. And that's my problem, not theirs.

Speaker 21:40

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 21:41

Um, but then again, we're not for everybody, and there's some people that'll never step through the doors, and that's fine.

Speaker 21:46

And I'm an everyday guy. Right. I got I so I'm assuming everyone knows, but you're right.

Speaker 1 21:50

No, but I mean that's what a lot of people think it's just because you've been here for seventy nine years that everybody knows who you are.

Speaker 21:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:56

And that's my challenge is to make sure that people at least know what we are and that we want to help them and that they're welcome.

Speaker 2 22:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1 22:03

I mean, you may not agree with everything we are behind, but that doesn't mean you aren't welcome to we. Don't respect you because that's the whole thing. We're welcoming, safe, and respectful for everyone.

Speaker 22:14

Well, and like I said, if you choose, if so, he's right, everyone doesn't know about Jerrol's. I want you to know about Jerrol's. Go walk in the door because it's really cool because you get greeted and there's no pressure to it's like you can walk around and someone will ask you once if you want some help and then you're left alone. You can go get a coffee at Weinegers and walk through Jerrol's. You might end up walking out with something because you got a lot of cool stuff. So there's my shameless plug for you. Because I'm a Jerrol's fan. I'm a Jerrol's and Weinegers fan. How about another question? Certainly. That was a that was a good. And some of these will start running into each other, except for the one about I want you to have an opportunity to talk about autism awareness and acceptance month. Um, but this one, we've answered some of this, but what has it been like? So we talked about the different versions of Jerrol's over the years. So what it's it what has it been like adapting a multi-generation business through all that you've seen a lot. You and I were old enough that we've seen a lot of life change, but you've seen firsthand the changes at Jerrol's. So what's it been like seeing all of those changes along the way?

Speaker 1 23:20

So we we talked about this a little bit, but it it's baked into our DNA at this point. Um we we just change and adapt, and that's what we do. I mean, continuous improvement is one of our core values. So I mean, every single day we're fixing 10, 100 things by 1%, not major changes, um, but by just little things to always improve. Um for me personally, it's my sweet spot. I love change, I love solving problems. Um, and so it's I I get a great deal of joy and energy from having obstacles. It doesn't mean I'm always smiling about them. Sure, sure. But um, I love the challenge of what how can we make this better and how do we overcome it? I think one of the advantages of being multi-generational is that we do have a foundation to work from. I mean, we know our core values. Um, so that never changes. I I know that I'm here to help people, that I'm here to improve myself, my team members, the people who walk through my door, my community, and I know that I support diversity, no matter what it looks like. Um, because I believe the differences in people is what makes it interesting, not the similarities.

Speaker 2 24:29

Yeah.

Growth Myths And Community Impact

Speaker 1 24:29

Um, so I have a foundation to work from, and I know what I will and won't do 100%. I'm never gonna sell guns, I'm never gonna sell alcohol, I'll never sell cigarettes again. We used to. Oh, yes. When I was a kid, we were selling cigarettes, but my dad said, no, this is not the way to go. Um, so we'll never sell anything that harms someone.

Speaker 24:47

Yeah. Has there any thank you for that? I appreciate it. Has uh I just this hit my brain. Uh has there ever been thought of expanding? We have expanded.

Speaker 1 24:58

We we've done lots of things. Yeah. Um, and my wife and I actually owned a store in town called Creative Concepts for 10 years back in the 90s.

Speaker 25:06

Okay.

Speaker 1 25:06

But one of the things, in fact, it's on my wall, and it came from my dad, um, is growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. Wow. And so it is a unique spot. Um a lot of people think business and capitalism is about unbridled growth, and that if you're not building 50 stores and then ultimately going to sell it, then you're not a success. And I think that's not true. I think it's the impact you make on the world. Dale Metter and I, I don't know if you know Dale, but we spent the other day talking about this and about um the value that businesses bring and to the world um and to the community. And so, no, I have no desire to go elsewhere because I don't need to. Um, there's another thing, um, acres of diamonds that you can always go search for diamonds somewhere else, but there is more than enough opportunity to sustain us here. We have not even come close to tapping our potential here, so why go anywhere else?

Speaker 26:10

Yeah, I like that. I, you know, um the conversation from time to time comes up. Have you and Katrina ever thought of moving, they say, back to the West Side? You know, I'm from Tacoma originally and she's from Aberdeen, and it's like, and the knee jerk is no. And it's like, oh, because we we could maybe go back over there and do the same things or maybe earn some more money, but for me, it's quality of life. Yeah, and in my own entrepreneur brain, like, you know, what we have some thoughts about um uh expanding the preschool, but we want to keep this core what we have here. So it's like, well, how do you do that and expand? Well, maybe maybe the end the end game will be to not to keep this, but I'm I'm like you in that, yeah, we can go search for other things out there, but what about what you have right now? You and I said this downstairs, all we got is today, right? Right? And so let's focus on what we have here and now and make that quality. And I love what you say about community, like serve our community. And if you start expanding and going out in here and there, how can you do that, right? If you're having to focus on all these other areas, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 27:19

It's just a different philosophy, not right or wrong. But I don't think that you have to grow to be successful. I think that's a false paradigm, and I think it's part of the reason we are where we are. Yeah, and we as a society and an economic platform called capitalism are gonna have to figure out because there it's not unlimited earth, there's not unlimited air, there's not unlimited water, resources, and we're gonna have to learn how to survive without growth. But that's hard because everyone needs to make more money, right? Right, right. And so, I mean, there's a lot of issues that come into that. And I think that that's really one of the areas I love to spend time thinking and um focused on.

Autism Acceptance And Real Life Isolation

Speaker 28:01

Yeah, yeah, good. All right, let's let's uh talk about uh I know an area that is real personal to you and your family, and in our conversations, you you reminded me because I didn't know I am not directly involved, but April is autism awareness, and you helped educate me and acceptance month.

Speaker 1 28:24

Yes, I've the words have always been changing, sure, sure. Right, right.

Speaker 28:28

So um, from your perspective as a parent, friend, and an employer, right? What does that really mean in real life?

Speaker 1 28:41

So, first of all, I'm going to shift it just a little bit because we talk about autism, but really you can talk about disability as a whole because Down syndrome, fragile X, whatever, it's all the same thing. Um it really, I mean, the way it works in real life is isolation. I mean, that's that's the biggest thing that you will find is that um the world shrinks. Um and for the family and I think for the individual. And it's because there's not a lot of understanding and there's not a lot of acceptance. Um, we're not someone, we're not a society that looks at others in a kind way. Um we want everyone to conform and everything is built for this one model, and that's not the model that someone with a disability has. I will also say that every single person has a disability of some sort, and every single person needs an adaptation, whether it's their job or whatever, in some way. So, really, this isn't that big of a deal, but we do have to look at things different and see how everyone has something to contribute. And as I said, it's the differences in people that is really interesting, it's not how we're similar. Um, and I think it's challenging too. We don't like differences because it challenges the way we think, and you have to think about the other person's perspective. Um I mean, for me, it's it's a day-to-day thing. I mean, it is the number one thing in my life, it is always about how we can help my son um thrive in his environment. Um, but in this community, there's very, very little for my son to do. Um, he is just two high needs um for almost everything that's here.

Speaker 30:36

Because it's all made for someone who's physically able, higher function, all of those things. Yeah.

Speaker 1 30:41

Yeah. I mean, look around the world. It's all set up for someone like you and I. Yeah. Um I think what it's taught me personally. I mean, I'm I'm truly blessed for my son because I would be a totally different person, much, much shallower, much not the person I am, but I've learned empathy. I've learned that everybody's got something. I mean, don't don't feel sorry for me. I can tell you people that are and definitely have things much tougher than we have. Um and I I think it's made me look and I'm more accepting of people. And I I think there's opportunities for everyone. Um as an employer, I look at what what opportunities are there for you. Um and I mean we it Jerrol's is not a good fit for everybody. I mean, that's one of the things you comment is our team, and it's because we look for people who are a good fit. Yep. Um, but we also don't know if you're a good fit if we're talking about, you know, we don't know. You've never tried it, no one's given you an opportunity to see.

Speaker 3 31:53

Right.

Speaker 1 31:53

And I've we've put people in positions and that absolutely was not, they thought it would be great, but the reality is like, oh, no way. But we found other positions for them where they've truly thrived. Um and so it's a matter, like everyone, of finding the right seat um for them. Yeah, but uh I mean it's w I have a team member who's been with us for probably 20 years. Um, and every day I see him, he says, Ralph Williams, nice guy, never changes. And I cannot tell you what that means to hear every day. It is yeah um fundamental and it it's so cool.

Speaker 32:30

Um because you you gave him opportunity probably when others would not. Um perhaps. No, I I'll just say not perhaps.

Speaker 1 32:44

You you did and I I just think we need to give people a chance and to not make assumptions. I mean, one of the things with autism that is somewhat unique is that there's no physical marker. And so the you can be very misunderstood. Like, why why are you misbehaving? Why can't you? And you you see this in the school districts um where people just don't understand because there's no physical marker that people would understand. And so I think when you see something, you can't just make an assumption. You have to give someone as much grace as you possibly can because you don't know what's going on in their life.

Speaker 33:23

Yeah, I like that. I I think you and I carry some similar philosophies of life, and you know, there's quotes and memes that go around that you know, I think we we should be careful before we judge a person's situation because we don't know.

Speaker 1 33:37

That's right.

Speaker 33:37

Um, you know, kind of a whole different realm. But you know, when I see a person um down at Safeway with the sign and and they're asking for food or whatever, you know, uh would I be lying if I said sometimes I'm like, oh, you know, this or that, but you know, I've been in that place where I didn't have a roof over my head, I was on the streets, and so you just never know that's right what someone's going through or what their backstory is. Back to the autism.

Speaker 1 34:02

I want to just jump back into that with anything, and no matter what, they're still somebody's son, someone's father, someone's they're a fellow human. Right, right, they're a human. And everyone should be looked through that lens before anything.

Speaker 34:14

I I just uh comment a friend um was talking about having a conversation with someone who's uh homeless or unhoused or doesn't have a stable place to live, and and how kind and respectful they were. And and I just said, and I'll say this, you know, I've there are times when I'll buy lunch for someone or just like I would a friend, and and I've always been met with gratitude and a smile and kindness, and it's like humanity, right? And I imagine a world where we are human with each other on levels like we're talking about. I imagine what change that would cause.

Speaker 3 34:50

Yeah.

Advice For New Diagnoses

Speaker 34:52

I want to ask a closing question before we go to the you got one more question left, and we're almost done. So the hot seats, not so hot for you anymore. But it's been terrible, let me tell you. Yeah, I know you look really stressed. Um, let me ask you this for someone who's listening out there, and and this might be part of your closing question too, um, but what advice would you give to parents who have a child and they just received the autism diagnosis?

Speaker 1 35:22

Um, or any diagnosis. Any, yeah. So, first of all, you're not alone, and second of all, other people have been in your shoes. So the the number one thing I would say is reach out to parent-to-parent. Um, there's one in every single county in Washington State, there's actually one across the entire country. Um, so you can Google them. My wife happens to be the coordinator. So, and you can just come to Jerrol's and ask me. I mean, that's one of the reasons we have we put ourselves out there is because we want people to know that this isn't something you read about in a magazine. I mean, and my son is not unique in this county. Sure. Um, whatever you want to say about autism, it's everywhere. Yeah. Um, but reach out to parent to parent and talk to another parent who's been there, who can guide you. Um, there is no safety net, that's a lie. Um, there are various organizations and systems that can help, but you have to do it and you have to go to them. They're not coming to you.

Speaker 36:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1 36:24

Um, so that's a fallacy to think that there's you get into a system and everything's taken care of.

Speaker 36:29

That would be great.

Speaker 1 36:30

Um, but I will also tell you that you're gonna get through it, and it's not nearly what it seems like it's going to be, but it is gonna be different than what you thought. You thought your life was gonna look like this, yeah, and you're it's not gonna look like that. It's gonna look different, but it's not gonna be bad, it's just gonna be different.

unknown 36:47

Okay.

Speaker 36:48

Um so reach out. There's people out there, you're not alone.

Speaker 1 36:51

Absolutely. Don't do this alone. And it takes time to be able to do that.

Speaker 36:55

Yeah, yeah. It's it's asking for help alone is hard, right? But and I've I've been there.

Speaker 1 37:00

I mean, I I was in deep depression when I first um started to realize when my son was three that things were where they were supposed to be. And it may have I'm probably still processing that to this day.

Speaker 37:13

What helped you climb out of that initial state of depression?

Speaker 1 37:24

I I'm blessed in that I have a wife and we were together, and that's not gonna change. I think that made a huge thing. That's pretty powerful.

Speaker 37:33

Um I could imagine with any diagnosis, some couple they do.

Speaker 1 37:36

No, it's it's the statistics are horrible. And to try to do it alone, I cannot even imagine.

Speaker 37:41

I mean, just that you knew, so that helped.

Speaker 1 37:45

Yeah tremendously. And I think time heals, and you see it's not what you thought it was gonna be. Because your mind goes all kinds of places and you hear all kinds of stories and myths and things. Um, it's like everything, nothing's ever what you think it's gonna be. I mean, there's just false expectations appearing real.

Speaker 38:01

So I'm hearing this, you haven't said this directly, but educate yourself, right? Oh, absolutely. Would you say yes? Don't listen to this, the noise. Actually educate yourself.

Speaker 1 38:10

Right. Yeah, and like everything, I mean, it's not really how, it's who. Go find your who.

Speaker 2 38:14

Yeah, go find somebody who can help you.

Speaker 1 38:17

You don't have to do this on your own, you don't have to learn it from scratch. Um, go find someone who can show you the path forward, and then you can tweak it to be yours.

Leadership Through Humility And Vulnerability

Speaker 38:28

Good, thank you. Okay, thank you for all that um really meaningful information uh on any diagnosis we've talked about. Um uh, but April is autism acceptance appreciation month, so um, thank you for sharing that. So, one last question for you before our two closing questions that are lighter if you want to call them that, but less meaty. I don't know. How has that experience, let's just say let's just all your experiences as a business owner, a family man, the father of a child with with autism, a motor, just all of it, just thinking about it. How has your experiences shaped the way you lead, hire and support people in your business?

Speaker 1 39:24

I guess I would just start with it always, you're always learning, and I'm constantly amazed at how little I know and how much more there is to learn. Um I think I'm learning to be a better servant leader, and I think I'm learning I hope that I eventually will learn things about vulnerability and humility and courage. Um you know, and it sort of comes down to um you need to accept the things you cannot control, right? And you need to have the courage to change the things you can change, and you need to know the wisdom between them.

Speaker 40:10

Yeah. Um and it's not always easy, is it?

Speaker 1 40:14

No, no, it's not. I mean, that's a lifelong struggle for everybody, but and I especially have problems around um the vulnerability piece of that. What's the struggle? Um I am a person who is wired for independence and autonomy, and I don't want to feel controlled or boxed in or um and so to surrender any of that is difficult. Yeah. And I've spent a lifetime just putting armor around my heart um to protect myself, and so my work is to break through that.

Speaker 40:58

Which, you know, through these sessions, I find, you know, we have more in common with people than we have different. And you, you know, uh, you know, a little my backstory. I lived a life of chaos in my childhood and then in my adulthood, and and I've created a a pretty good life for myself, right? And part of that is I've created that, I've done the work, like you've done the work. And there's something about having that, that giving that up seems really scary. Not that I'm gonna give it up, but it's part of that vulnerability piece that you want to protect, right? Your heart, that you said. Um, and I I can really appreciate that. I want to share with you that um, because I'm pretty out there, like I've shared my story, I've written a book about it, I I've done pot, you know. Um it's for me, because I know you want to help people, and this this podcast is gonna help people, and we're guys of a certain age now, right? So I want to just share with you that I want you to just consider being vulnerable, knowing that the more we're vulnerable, the more we're helping the future generation. That's what I think about. Like I teach at Central and I love do working with young people, and I say you're our future leaders. And so I I really appreciate what you've shared in this podcast. Um, and you're just a cool cat. I've always thought of you as a cool guy. We have you know, music and motorcycles and business. Um, so thank you for that.

Speaker 1 42:29

Yeah, you're welcome.

Build To Last With A Vision

Speaker 42:30

Yeah, okay, we're gonna wrap this up. Kind of like at the beginning, right? You know, I I said introduce yourself to people who don't know you who are watching this or listening to this. The this closing uh question is um, what advice would you give someone trying to build something to last? As someone's listening to this, a young entrepreneur or maybe a middle-aged entrepreneur or something, just what advice would you give to someone to build something that's gonna last?

Speaker 1 42:59

So I'm gonna take the I don't think it matters, you don't have to be building a business. You could be building your marriage, you could be building anything. I think, um, I mean, this isn't new, I'm stealing it. Um, but begin with the end in mind. Um, I am a huge fan of a vision. Write a vision, and you don't have to write the how. That's irrelevant. The how will solve itself, but you need to know what this looks like. So if you're starting a business, are you gonna sell the business? Are you gonna turn it into multi-generational? Are you just gonna liquidate it? But in the end, when it's done, what's the goal? Because if you don't know the goal, then how do you know what you're trying to build? And how does anyone else know how to help you? Um, and so I really think you need to begin with the end in mind. I think you don't need to worry about the how, the how solves itself. Yeah, um, too many people get hung up on they want to figure out how it's going to happen. And the universe takes care of that. It's a pretty amazing place when you clearly tell it what you're looking for. Um but I think that would be my advice. Yeah, and I mean, you need to believe in yourself, you need to have confidence, but those are things you get. And strategy and skills, yeah. And that kind of stuff.

Closing Questions And Book Recommendation

Speaker 44:10

Yeah. I uh t two things come to mind which really speak to what you're saying. I believe in that too, is um when uh I started the KCRCO, which is now Pears Rising, um, I started with the end in mind. Um I had a vision, right? Not a vision, but I wanted to create this this entity in the community to help people in recovery, however that looks for them, right? And I started knowing that I wanted to let it go. I didn't want to be the executive director forever. It was always my goal to let it go. So it was as along the way, and I remember when I announced that people like, oh my god, this is yours. How can you? I'm like, no, it's it's not mine. It's never been mine. I never intended. So it was so that speaks to that. Right. And then um this were literally I record this podcast upstairs in my wife's preschool. And um, she she had a childhood dream of opening a preschool, and she's created, you've seen it and you know her, with that in goal. She's realized, we just went over five years, of what she wants to do for not just kids, but kids and their families, and how that affects the community, right? So I I think you're right. And I also like that you say, um, you don't have to have it all figured out, right? I work with students on campus. I'm actually heading out this afternoon to take a handful of students over to a conference at UW. And these students are future scientists, future researchers, future professors, future doctors, right? And they're, I call them wicked smart kids, like some of the hard scientists. I'm like, wow. But they can get they start getting overwhelmed with thinking about all they have to do to get to that end goal. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Just do it, you know, have strategy. Here's a strategy, like we have kind of a guideline for them, but you don't have to have it all figured out. If you have a good vision, a good good plan, a good goal, a good end game, it'll work itself out. And and I saw that with the because I did. I I was literally uh Ken File. I don't know if you know the files, but Ken Fyle handed me the keys to the original location. He he knew me well. He's kind of like a father figure. He handed me the keys to the building and said, You have six months, figure it out. I was like, oh god. But then, like you say, I just no, just one step at a time. Yeah. Right. Okay, last question. And this is one I always get a little nervous about, but I just kind of this is what I do. What's something you've always wanted to ask me?

Speaker 1 46:46

So I think I have two questions for you. All right. One for you, what is the secret to a good or happy life?

Speaker 46:57

Um, knee-jerk responses we have today. Um in the recovery community, which is where I rebooted my life. Um, the recovery community talks about living in today, living in 24-hour pockets of time, right?

Speaker 1 47:13

And I've got that coin in my pocket.

Speaker 47:15

Okay. Me and Katrina were were in line with this too, is we got today. And we were just talking about like having a vision and creating something cool and all of this. I do I live my life as best I can. It's not always perfect in 24-hour pockets of time. And I find when I do that, boy, things go a lot better.

Speaker 1 47:35

Brilliant. Yeah. And my second question for you is what book should I read?

Speaker 47:41

Oh, uh, wherever you go, there you are. Okay. Wherever you go, there you are. And that speaks to this mantra of mine. Um, if I were any religion, it would be Buddhist, but I'm, you know, it just um I I yeah, that's the book. Okay. It's a good one.

Speaker 1 48:00

I appreciate it.

Speaker 48:01

Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on. Oh, thank you. Yeah, are you a hugger? Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 48:05

Oh, yeah, let's do it. Dude, this was really good. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. Super good. Yeah.