The Work Behind The Photos w/guest Meaghan Bickel

A camera doesn’t just record what we look like. It records what we valued, who we were with, and the tiny details we forget until a photo brings them back. I’m joined by Meaghan Bickel, owner of Joy Photography in Ellensburg, to talk about what she’s learned from photographing weddings, family sessions, business headshots, and some of the most tender moments a family can face.

We get into the thing almost nobody admits out loud: most of us judge our own photos way more harshly than anyone else does. Megan shares what she sees when people step in front of the lens, why headshots can feel so brutal (and why men often worry about looking old), and how the most joyful images usually come from connection, not perfection. We also talk about grief, hospice photos, and why families later become “desperate for anything” after someone passes, even a blurry outtake in the corner.

Then we pull back the curtain on the real workload of professional photography and creative entrepreneurship: inquiries, planning, timelines, coordinating with vendors, the physical grind of a wedding day, and the marathon of culling and editing thousands of images afterward. Megan explains why AI tools can help but still miss the human parts, and why she puts so much emphasis on printed photos and professional albums that you can hold in your hands.

If you care about family memories, wedding planning, small business life, or simply feeling better about being photographed, you’ll take something practical from this conversation. Subscribe, share this with a friend who keeps putting off family photos, and leave a review with the one photo you never want to lose.

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Transcript

Welcome And A Quick Book Plug

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Okay, welcome friends to Deep Diver Dr. D on this beautiful, sunny, little bit of a breezy Sunday morning in Ellensburg. I'm glad you're joining us. I'm here today with Megan Bickel. Excited to have her on. We'll get into that in a minute. My shameless plug for my book, Deep or Grit Over Shame. I know the name of it. That is your copy. Thank you. You can get it wherever you buy books locally at Pearl Street Books on Pearl Street. Imagine that in Ellensburg. Gerald's on University Way. Geralds.com, they will deliver it to your front door in Kittitas County, and you can order it just to have it delivered to your door through the uh the old school mail process. Online at Amazon.com as a regular book, as an ebook, and as an audiobook. I call it the short story of the wild ride of my life.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Do you narrate it?

SPEAKER_03 0:50

I do.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Yeah. I could send you a, I think I still have some codes for the audiobook.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Oh, yeah. I'm big into audiobooks right now. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Remind me and I'll I'll uh send you the code.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Uh let's see. Yeah, so yeah, June. I posted my June guest are Megan. Brian Elliott.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Now I gotta look.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

I know a lot of your guests.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

You know, it's you know, Ellensburg. So next weekend is Brian Elliott. Known him for a long time. Excited to have him. Oh, Alicia. Alicia Gordon.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Oh, I know her too. Uh huh. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

And then, oh, the end of the month, no podcast recording because me and Katrina will be in Lincoln City.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Ooh, fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

First time for Jerry at the beach.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Oh, cute.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

He'll have fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

It'll be fun. Sand sandy dogs.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Oh, yeah. You'll be getting lots of bats. The place we stay is dog friendly. Oh, good. And they have all the they have all the stuff. They have a hose outside, and it's right by the beach, and the floors are all hardwood floors. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

We were considering bringing our dogs to the beach for the first time this year. And I'm still up in the air about it because they're very curly, and I just keep picturing sand, like all in the curls.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

So find somewhere where it's dog friendly and you can like clean them off every time. Because you know, thinking about when we come home in the car, it's nothing. There's a little bit, but we also don't drive on the beach. Oh. We stay where we can just walk. I don't yeah. So anyway.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

But the dogs, yeah. We hose them off every time we go down and come back up.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

So it's kind of a clean as you go.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Have you been down to that um sea lion cave that's down the big um walkway?

SPEAKER_03 2:33

I don't know if we have.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

On the way to Lincoln City?

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Oh, yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

That's very cool. Yes. You should go there. What about the Ripley's, believe it or not?

SPEAKER_03 2:41

Been there. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty fun. Yeah. We're going there twice this year. We Katrina and I usually go about once a year ourselves with the dogs, and then we're taking the family there in August.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Oh, fun.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

That'll be good.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

No dogs.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

No dogs.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Just the fam.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

That's enough to deal with. Yeah. Don't have to bring the dogs out of time.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Okay. Here we go. Okay. So this is a question. She's gonna freak out a little bit. Doesn't she look great? People, I know they come on, they're like, oh my gosh. And girls, ladies,

Meeting Megan And Life In Ellensburg

SPEAKER_03 3:08

chins, right? So we were talking about chins. Katrina's always like, delete that picture, my chin. And so here you go, friends. Old guy, I'm getting all you know, I'm aging. I'm starting to see my neck droop a little, so I might have a flap, you know? So whatever.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

That's such a terrible word. Okay. Flap.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

A chicken, you know, chicken flap, a rooster flap. All right. So here we are.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

This is a question I don't give you. That oh god. Yeah. She's like, oh my god, how dare you? Um, so people know me from my podcast. Uh introduce yourself to the world. Whoever listens to this who may not know you personally, professionally, whatever you choose to share.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Um, let's see. Uh, my name, where do I look? Do I look at you? Do I look at it?

SPEAKER_03 3:55

You can do either.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Okay. So uh my name is Megan Bickle. I'm uh 42 years old, which is which I just learned.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

I was shocked, I was surprised.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

I had you and your man in your 30s.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

That is really nice.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

You said he's 47. He's 47. Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

But like I but like I told you, I have a six-year-old, I have to keep going.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Yeah, so I have to, yeah. And I think in myself, it's probably 30 in my early 30s.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

So yeah, like the fact that I'm 59 is shocking to me.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yeah, isn't it weird? That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Age is a weird thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Um, Mary. Yes. Yes. We've been together 16 years in July.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Okay. Oh, wow. Katrina and I are, this is year uh 15 or 16.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Yeah. Married and dating, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

A weirdly long time. Um I have a six and three-quarter year old who uh his name is Fox. Yes. And he went to your guys' preschool, to Sunflower Preschool. And he's in kindergarten. He's finishing kindergarten next week.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Kid attacks?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Valley View.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

Valley View, okay. Which uh Oh, you guys don't live way out there anymore.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

No, we moved way over there.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Where?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Robinson Canyon.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Oh, you did? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

And so we're zoned for a different school zone, but we transferred in here just because he knew a lot of kids and it just felt right. And we love it there. Um, I am an only child.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

Um that explains a lot.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

My parents live in Tri-Cities. Oh. Um which of the tri? West Richland.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Um I own a business called Joy Photography.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

You do.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

My middle name is Joy.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

And that's where we met.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

I don't remember. Probably.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

I think it was.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Probably.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

When I was doing the wedding business.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

And um how long have you done had Joy Photography?

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Oh man, I was thinking about that. Like a tax license since 2015.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

That's a 11 years. That's really crazy to me. Um, I've done it full-time since Fox was born, so almost seven years. I've had my brick and mortar studio for four years. This is all crazy to me. The time is flying by. Um, I grew up in South Carolina.

unknown 6:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

I was born in Michigan.

unknown 6:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

And then lived in Arkansas.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

South Carolina. And I went to three high schools.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

What were the moves?

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Because of jobs was a physicist.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Really?

SPEAKER_00 6:36

He's very smart, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

And um he is in the nuclear business.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

And so I guess they move a lot.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

And so um interesting.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

Yeah, so public, private? I don't know. Probably public. I don't know. Probably public. No, there's private energy.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Energy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, interesting. Because his brass ring, I guess, was from South Carolina to Hanford in Tri-Cities.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

Oh wow. Oh, that's of course.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

So yeah, so I went to three high schools. Okay. That was hard. Yeah. But turned out okay. Yeah. And um then moved to Ellensburg uh thirteen years ago.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

You moved here.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Why did you move here?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

I met Zach.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

Okay. We met on Eharmy. I met Zach.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

I didn't mean it in a bad way. No, I agree. We met on uh eHarmony, remember? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

No way. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

So he was here and you were in the Tri-Cities.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah, but his family is from Tri-Cities area too.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

And he came here to go to school and didn't leave.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Okay. Um another story.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yeah. But he went to Central to be a teacher, quickly realized he didn't want to be a teacher.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

And switched to PerryTech to be an electrician.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

Okay. And that's what he does now.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Now he owns an electrical company.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Okay. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

He does a lot of work for big, big uh buildings like central hospitals, jails, places with big lots of rooms.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

He's doing great.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

So you met e-harmony.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

So e-harmony is not a swipe right, but if you did swipe right, who swiped first? Who contacted who? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

My memory is not good. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Um, I remember him saying in one of the first emails that he had a good feeling about me. I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Hey, good job, Zach.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

That's one of them.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

You had a good feeling about you.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, but I also chose eHarmony instead of the other ones because it was like a vetting process for me.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Because I remember eHarmony had like a hundred questions.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

You went through all the questions. It was the guy that talked about we've created the science behind dating. I forget who the their public facing guy. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

And it was like, it was kind of expensive.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

And I remember thinking, okay, so if he goes if he takes the time to go through a hundred questions and pay the subscription fee that wasn't cheap, then he's hopefully a better, better quality catch.

unknown 9:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

You've thrown your reel a little deeper in the water.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah. And someone who is more uh, you know, interested in really finding someone willing to answer all the questions.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

Yeah, so this was way back when um uh uh what was the one it was it wasn't an app fresh bumble plenty of fish? Plenty of fish. Yeah they it wasn't plenty of fish. I did a plenty of fish date because this is when I was dating.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Plenty of plenty of bums.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

Plenty of you're not really what you say you are.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Plenty of no thank yous.

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Yeah, yeah, Miss Katrina, plenty of no thank yous. I'm so what what that's what Katrina says all the time. Oh, okay. No thank you. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right, so did you Katrina meet? We met years before we even thought of starting to date. We were friends for almost a decade. Right. We met in the recovery community when I first moved to Ellensburg.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

And so we we were just friends. We never even like looked at each other that way until 2009, 10-ish.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Did I know Katrina before you? When she was at the adult activity center?

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Uh maybe. I think so. You went to the adult activity center?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

No, I used to work at aging and long-term care for years. What? Yes, I was a case manager.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Oh my gosh, you're kidding. No, okay, yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

So I think I probably had clients who went there.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

Yeah. So I knew her the whole time. Yeah, I've known her since she was uh Central.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

She was here, she came here to go to school, never left.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Another story. I came here to be closer to my son, who my ex had moved to Yakima with Fred Meyer.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

And so we met not long after I moved here, but just you know, as friends.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Yeah. Okay, now going back to you and Zach, I'm always curious about people's love stories.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

So my memory's not good.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

It's okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

We'll tease it a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Uh so you come up here to meet him.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yes. Right? And now, in hindsight, yeah, it's like that is dangerous. Well, it's okay. And I didn't want him to come see me. Not because I thought, oh, he could be a psycho killer. I don't know where I he I don't want him to know where I live. That's not why. It was my own adventurous spirit. Yeah. I wanted to go see where he lived.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

I'm sure you didn't go to his house. You probably met at a restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

I did.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

I met him at his house. I still remember what he was wearing when he opened the front door.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Oh my gosh. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

The silver arrow.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Certainly you told someone you were doing this.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

I probably.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

This is a dateline ready to happen. Oh, absolutely. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yeah, I remember that. And remember our first date, we painted his living room. All right. Because I don't know why I just I just wanted to and he didn't want to do that, but I was like, sure, let's just I thought it was a way to take the pressure off of the direct conversation. Yeah. And like actually doing something.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

So you painted.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

We painted.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

You painted.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

And I remember he painted my shoulder or something. And I and I thought it was annoyingly cute.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Yes. Yeah. And you guys started dating from then on?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Pretty much. I remember one time um we'd only met a few times and we went to his parents' house in Tri-Cities because I was there visiting my parents in Tri-Cities and he was visiting his parents in Tri-Cities. And I went over to their house and he was like, This is my girlfriend.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

And I was like, Oh, that's when you learned you're his girlfriend.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

I am okay, sure. Oh wow. Here we go.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Okay. And are you guys married?

unknown 12:34

No.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

You're not okay. So that's a just cohabit.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

It's okay. We were engaged.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

But it life got hard and I can't call I postponed it, and we we've never really come around to that.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Well, you know. I know a guy. If you ever decide to, it's okay. But okay. So you guys have been together a long time.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Long time.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

So you you met on eHarmony. Yeah. EHarmony was like the bougie kind of deal. It was. That was like and that's interesting you say that too from a kind of thinking, you know, I want to try to find someone of quality. Yeah, you had to go through some steps to get on eHarmony. It was a subscription. I think it was the first subscription base, probably. It wasn't just where you no, you had to pay, and there was science behind it. I remember the commercials. So you guys met, been together ever since.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

Um, lived in Ellensburg the whole time. The whole time. We used way up.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Well, actually, we dated long distance for three years.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Oh, long distance being Tri-Cities to Ellensburg. Okay. Oh. So who would come up and who would go down?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

We would both go back and forth.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Do you ever meet in the middle?

SPEAKER_00 13:38

No.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

No Yakima meetups?

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

Prosser?

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

No, just either there or here.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Okay. Nice.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Okay. And then he he had come here to go to school to be a teacher. Which actually, fun fact, Miss Katrina?

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

She originally came here to be a teacher.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Got some what I call bad advising.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

And she shifted into recontourism, turned it into a great career, and then went back to become a teacher.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, we always seem to return to our roots, don't we? Kinda. Yeah. It's weird how that happens.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Yeah. Okay, back to you. So um have a son, have two dogs. We were talking about the dogs.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Two cats and a snail.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Oh, a snail.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

A snail.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yes, Fox. It's a very easy pet for a kindergartner to have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

But it gives them some, that's their pet, and it's staying alive.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

It's been alive for a year.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

A lot of parents get their kids cats and dogs, and the parents end up with cats and dogs.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And my dad always says that um God makes puppies and kittens cute so they have homes when they're dogs and cats. That's your sucker.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

Isn't that kind of like with babies too, I guess?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Oh yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

That's I like that. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Like Jerry and Johnny were sure cute. They're still cute. Jerry's still cute.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Well, like I was telling you earlier, I mean, I was very content with only having our one dog, Hazel.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

And then I found out she had a sister. Uh-huh. And I saw the pictures and I was like, Oh, we need another one. Yeah. Yeah. And she's an adorable dummy. No, that's very sweet, very stupid.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Well, I don't know if you've ever heard me say, I think Johnny's defective. He's a German shepherd, you know, third smartest dog in the world. Sometimes I'll throw his ball and I'm like, hmm.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah, no. Thank you. Well, they are like uh 95% poodle. They're golden smart dogs. Oh Hazel is super smart dog. The older one, Hazel, who's two, she is brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

Wicked smart.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Crazy smart. Yeah. You can talk to her in full sentences. Oh, okay. And I swear she understands everything you say. And her little sister is very like doesn't know nothing. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

Okay. Okay, now. So let's do a quick review of your introduction. Okay. Um, you're Megan, you own Joy Photography. Uh, we'll probably get into some of the other careers because I just learned some stuff. You worked with seniors, you worked at a psych ward.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

A psych hospital.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

A psych hospital, uh-huh, which I've been in, uh, not a hospital. I went to memorial for a few days on the top floor.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

Um, anyway, uh you've had some different pathways there. Um have a son. We know your son. Um, loved having him at the preschool. Uh anything else someone would maybe be surprised to know about you.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Surprised to know about me?

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Yeah, or be like, oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

I think people are usually surprised that I'm from the South.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

I'm surprised.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah, they're usually surprised about that. Um I lived there until I was like 17.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Do you like it?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Oh, I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Miss it?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

Okay. Food. Like I love the food.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Oh yeah. And then one of my one of my best friends since I was six years old or so, Lauren, she still lives there, and I still talk to her several times a week.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

You've been back?

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Oh, yeah, I've been back a lot.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

You have family down there?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

No. No, I don't have any family from there. My family's from Michigan.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Oh man. Well, what part of Michigan?

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Uh well, my mom is from Sault Ste. Marie, which is way at the top up by Canada. Like um, you can see Canada across the river. And then my dad is from um Holt, I think, which is close to Lansing in the middle. And I was born in the middle of central Michigan.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

I want to go to Detroit really bad.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Do you? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

People always have the reaction, like what? Yeah, like the history, and I'm a car guy. Um, I would love to go to Detroit.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yeah. I think I've only been to the airport.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

And it's slowly starting to have an upswing. Yeah. Back.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Well back. Like my mom's family was heavy into like the locks, like on the so I never really knew what a lock was. It's it's kind of cool. Um and then my dad was from like the beautiful farmland. Oh, wow. Rolling hills and red barns everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

And was that the plan your parents just won and done?

SPEAKER_00 17:57

No.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

They tried for a long time to have me.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Oh, they okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Yeah. And then they that's why my middle name is Joy.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yeah. And then um just learned something else.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

And then I'm an only child.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

And then my kid is an only child.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Poor kid.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Yeah. My son's an only child.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Katrina was raised as an only child. She has older brothers my age.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

That's how Zach is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

And he has two older brothers who are like 15 years older than him. So he was raised kind of like an only child, too.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Did you always I'm always interested to hear, so you were raised as an only child. Were there times you wished you had siblings?

SPEAKER_00 18:36

I don't remember wishing that as a kid. Um, my mom might remember that more than me. I don't remember that, but she tried really hard to make sure I had lots of play dates.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

And I had friends in the neighborhood, and we I could bring a friend to the beach because we lived in South Carolina, so we go to the beach every summer.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

And um I do as an adult, which makes me think I wish Fox had a sibling. But um I like I said, I'm 42 and 47, so I don't know that'll happen.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah. But um, so I'm trying hard to make all the memories for him.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Thank you for the introduction. You ready for a question? Oh god. She said she's nervous about this question. Let's see how this goes. Okay, okay. All right. So you've photographed you've photographed weddings, families, seniors, businesses, and just about every major milestone.

What The Camera Reveals About People

SPEAKER_03 19:33

After all these years behind the camera, what have you learned about people that most of us never get to see? Hmm. Maybe about families, about those intimate times.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

I would say we're all just people. We all just want to have a nice picture of our family. We're all too hard on ourselves and the way we look, I think that we um see ourselves so much worse than the average person does.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

You know, from the outsider.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

And even people that I've photographed that were like exceptionally beautiful, like Barbies, you know, or whatever, very handsome people, they were the ones that were the most particular and the most hard on themselves. And the people who are are more lighthearted about it are the ones who end up liking their pictures more because they're more engaged and smiling and trying to be connect with their family. And so I think it's that we're all too hard on ourselves. And I see that all the time.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Do you see that? Do you think that's um more in different settings? Like if you're doing a a family session compared to weddings or maybe the business environment, do you see it more or less in certain arenas? I run. Have you ever done any uh uh funerals or like I have.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Yeah. I've done some funerals. Um I've done a couple um situations where the the baby had passed away and they wanted to get some pictures of them together as family. I've done some memorial services.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Um where do you find people or I've done someone where the where people are most worried about their looks?

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Family photos and headshots. Uh huh. And I would say that um the ones who are actually the hardest on themselves about headshots is the men. Really? I'm very surprised about that, but it seems to be recurring. They're the ones who seem to say the most that they look old, even more than the women.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Interesting. Yeah, they're always like so headshots, yeah, trying to hide their wrinkles and like stand different. Yeah, see, I'm grabbing my I'm grabbing my neck because it's just been recently. I'm starting to notice my neck is loosening up even more. But the chin. Um I I just it made me think uh we had Sammy Joe. You remember Sammy Joe? Yeah. We had her come over when my mom was in hospice care. And you know, I remember during that time as a family, and we're we're a family, we're not real serious. I mean, we can be, but it was more we just wanted to capture the moments. Um I've been at a lot of weddings and I seen a lot of weddings be photographed. Um I don't I don't know. I think it depends on the family.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

I do too. Yeah. Um, yeah, some of them want to be very perfect, and I mean I'm guilty of that too. Sure. I mean, I've had a photographer coming down the driveway to come take photos of us, and we're arguing as they're coming down the driveway.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

Gotta be just so.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yep. We're getting ready to go smile for the camera, you know. But um, I've done some hospice photos too. Um, a lady who um they just wanted me to come take a picture of them playing Mexican train dominoes around the table.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

And um just hanging out in the living room together.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

Yeah, those I just recently had a uh a friend pass, and um me and her daughter went to her house and and we're going through her things, and you know it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Nevada.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Yeah, yeah. Our friend Becky, you know, you find these pictures, and and I just had this thought. Not once have I looked at a picture and went, oh man, your chin or or your hair or absolutely none of that comes to mind.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

And one of my best friends in life, the one I just mentioned, uh Lauren from South Carolina when I was young, she um just lost her mom suddenly this week. And I've known her since I was a little girl. And um, she lost her dad a few years ago too, and we're the same age. And um I when I the not the last time, but the time before last, I went and I brought my cameras and I took pictures of them, her whole family. And she's been going through all the photos um that were at her dad's memorial and finding photos of her mom. And um she's been really, really thankful to find them. Yeah, and also I saved a lot of the outtakes.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Um and I have that happens a lot. I've had a lot of people reach out to me um after someone passes away, and they're just desperate for anything. An image. Anything, it doesn't have to be a beautiful fancy photo, they just want one where at the wedding there she is over in the corner behind everyone.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

Do you have anything?

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Yeah, do you have anything? Anything, even just being a an outtake silly face or whatever, just just desperate to have it.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

And so that kind of you know, on days when it just feels like a job, it kind of brings me back to this is this is more important than I realized.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Yeah, you know, it's super meaningful, you know. I don't know if it's an age thing, but I and I'll post this sometimes. You know, take the picture, take the video because one day that's all you're gonna have.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Right? You have your memories, but you can attach that memory. Like I'm actually looking at that picture right over there of Katrina. That's Katrina's 30th birthday party.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Oh, she looks beautiful, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:34

And her parents, and I remember the setting and the place, um, and it's super meaningful, yeah. You know, the work you do. And I'm I know because I've been involved in the wedding business, and it can be high stress, and like, oh god, and it's gotta be just so, and we gotta take it 5,000 different shots of this, you know. But yeah, the after effect, and you probably don't get a see and feel it, but the years later, when someone's looking, in fact, in our living room under our coffee table is our wedding album.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

People still do wedding albums in our digital age, right? I do.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

And I think it's interesting what you said about memories because, like I said uh today a couple times, my memory for some is bad. And when I look back through pictures, it clicks, it clicks and it brings that memory back. Yeah, and um, it really helps me come back to that. And that's something I always tell people too when I do weddings for them, or um, this is what you're gonna look back at in 30 years or 50 years. And that's why I include albums in most of my wedding packages too, because and it's not just like some Costco shutterfly thing, it's gorgeous professional album. You flip through that and you're like, this is what's special. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

There is some there is something too that, you know, as I'm looking around my own space and hear that physical photo as opposed to just looking on our phone.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Oh, absolutely. Gosh, I was looking at my cell phone um pictures the other day, and I probably have 50,000 literally 50,000 pictures, yeah. And it's like, gosh, you think about when somebody passes away, you're gonna be treasuring that five by seven where you you just have it in your hand. Physical photo, you know, and I'm I'm guilty of it too, trying to make sure I get them printed. But that's how my business is is different than a lot of the other photographers in town, is that I really put a lot of emphasis on how are we going to get this printed because it can become a a weight on the shoulder of the moms, especially. It's like, oh, we got our photos done. And people would used to tell me, I've had those for years and I haven't done anything with them. Yeah, and so I'm like, Yeah. So I'm like, let's get this done, check it off, put it on the wall.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Like what you do with the preschool photos. Yeah, yeah, super cool. Yeah, very cool.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

And I I got into this job um because I I wanted something flexible and more lighthearted because I've always had kind of heavy jobs um with people who were in really uh hard situations, and uh it's been really nice because people are almost always in a good mood when I'm taking their picture, but it's still more meaningful than maybe I realized.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Yeah. Super cool. Yeah. Okay, how about another question? Okay. Oh, this is this'll be good. Uh, people often see photography as showing up with the camera and taking pictures, right? You're running around, you got your cameras on you, you got someone

The Real Work Of Photography

SPEAKER_03 28:38

helping you with your lights, blah, blah, blah. What are some of the biggest misconceptions about being a professional photographer and running a creative big business?

SPEAKER_00 28:48

That it's so much more than just taking the picture. That's the fun part. That's that's the fun part. When I get to go see people and interact with people um during the family session or headshots or um a wedding or whatever, that that's the fun part. And there's so much more to it than that.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Um well, just real quick, because I want to know more of the behind the scenes. I'm just thinking because you just did the preschool pictures. Okay. And that's a whole event. Yeah. For two days, I think it is. When you come and we're out in the front yard and we're doing this and we're doing that. And it's it's memories. Yeah. It's not just the pictures, like you take great pictures, but it's the doing of the pictures. Yeah. And you've done it for us. Is this the second or third year? Um I'm just I'm not sure either. But if you think about it, when you come back to maybe places, those memories build on themselves. Yeah. Because I think about, oh, she did this last year, and I actually go look at the pictures you did the year prior. And I'm like, so so it is, it's it's an experience.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

It's not just you, the photographer, taking pictures.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

It's all that goes with that.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Absolutely. And it's kind of and it's wonderful, and it's also exhausting.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Like mentally, because you really have to be like on and you have to pay attention to your settings and your camera, your lighting.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

You have to pay attention to where the people or the kids are standing. Are they looking at you? What's is this the sun just went behind the cloud? This is happening. Oh, keep talking, keep them moving, keep them going. Um, you guys always do a really good job of making it nice and laid back and um pretty easy.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

But it's not always that way, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

It's not always that way.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

But like there's stress.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

You have your own stress, and then whoever you're doing the pictures for, they have their stress.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yes. And I try really hard to help them not have stress. And that can be tiring on me. You know. Um, but I especially like weddings and stuff, it's so much more than just taking the pictures. You have to think about the angle that you're taking the photos, the lighting that's taking the photos, the the the connection of the people that you're taking the photos of, the if the settings in your camera are correct, if they're gonna be in focus, if if it the lighting's gonna be good.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

If you how much how much work, laborious work, tedious work is there running up to a wedding?

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Up to a wedding? Um, not too bad, but I also think it comes with um experience.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

You've done it for a while.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

I've done it for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

So to you, it might not seem like much, but just talk about what are the pieces running up to a wedding? What do you have what information are you gathering? What planning are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Well, first of all, you have to have them reach out to you, which can be a job in and of itself, right? Just getting the inquiry to and then you're connecting with them through email or through the phone and talking about what their vision is, what they want, um, the kind of you know, the style they like. Does their style match your style? And another thing is I like to meet people in person because um everybody has a different personality, right? Um, you talked about Sammy Joe. I love Sammy Joe. We're very different. She and I. She's more quiet, um, more calm. I'm kind of like, blah, you know. And so I think it's important to meet the person that you're gonna have photograph your wedding because you're gonna be with them all day. And you want to make sure that your personalities mesh. Because if you have somebody that you don't click with, it'll make the day not as enjoyable. So meeting in person. Um, get I help a lot, um, almost like a wedding planner. Well, I mean a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Just a little bit with the photos for the phone.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Because I help make the timeline of the day. And I know DJs, the timeline's very important to you and to me.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

And a lot of people are like, Well, I've never been married before. I don't know how long this takes. I don't know how long this takes. And I'm like, I do. Let's let's piece it together. Piece it together, and I'll make it for you. And then um, you gotta get all your equipment. I got two cameras, I have a bunch of lenses, my harnesses, I got all my memory cards, I got a charge.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

Do you usually have someone helping you?

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Or is that yeah, I usually have a second shooter, we call them. Um, sometimes they choose to omit that and for cost. And I don't like that.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Because um they bring a lot to it because they bring different angles, different perspective.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

And it's just someone else to help.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yes, it makes it more fun for me for sure.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Thinking back to when I was in the wedding business, when I would arrive on site, whether I was DJ, certainly if I was wedding coordinator, but even as officient, one of the first people I would want to talk to is the photographer.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Yeah. Yeah, because we know what's going on. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Let's let's let's line up, yeah, know what each other's doing.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

Um, and if you know what the photographer is doing as DJ, yeah, you know when you're gonna be playing music, when you're gonna have a break. Efficient, of course, not quite so much wedding coordinator, duh. Yeah. I mean, but your photographer is your one of your main contacts.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

And a good photographer is gonna make the day go well. A not so good photographer is gonna make the day a nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Yeah. And we do our best.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Oh, I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Yeah, just sometimes yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

And also it can be, you know, well, there's a whole bunch of different factors. I always loved it when I came on, and there was a good coordinator.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Because a good coordinator would help the day go smooth for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

But also, even if there wasn't a good coordinator, I think you're right. The photographer was a quasi coordinator.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Absolutely. And sometimes it's hard when you get a coordinator and a photographer that don't go.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Because the coordinator is like the boss.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

So there's a lot running up to it. There's of course a lot the day of. Talk about you you're it's done and you're going home, and then what?

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Then you feel like you've been hit by a truck.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Because you've been gone for 10 hours on your feet all day. You're dehydrated. You're you're tired. You've been going like this with a camera for how many your muscles are sore? You're worn out. And so usually the next day, I don't do much of anything because I'm tired. And um, but you know, you have to go through all thousands of photos.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

How many do you think you take in one one standard wedding?

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Me plus the second shooter, or just me? Just on average, total photos. Total plus plus the second shooter. I've been trying lately to be like, please only take 1,500 photos, please. And lots of times that's hard for them. And I'm like, please just be be purposeful about what you're taking.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

The second shooter.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Yeah. Yeah. Because otherwise I might have like 4,000 photos to go through.

unknown 35:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

It's a lot. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

So what's your what's your process in your brain to go through those?

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Well, and some people are like, oh, AI is doing this and doing this. But AI especially like it's called culling. When you go through and you delete the photos that you don't want, and there's the majority of them. And um AI doesn't see the connection in the photo at all. They just see, oh, her eyes are shut. And it's like, no, she's like smiling and looking down. Her eyes aren't shut.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

So I So AI is helpful, but it's not the end all cure all. It's not. Yeah. No. As it shouldn't be. Yeah. And so So how many photos did you say again? That I 4,000? Oh, yeah. Did you say 4,000?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Probably.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

What are you getting down to? A hundred? Oh no. Five hundred?

SPEAKER_00 36:36

No.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

I wish.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

What are you getting down to that you give the client?

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Usually around 1,200.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

1,200 pictures.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

I could do less if they wanted me to.

unknown 36:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

But but I also kind of put it in my perspective of I don't have a very good memory. I want to remember everything. I want to remember what we had for dinner. I want to remember what exact color the flowers were over here. That's something else, is I'm not super into the the moody editing, which has its place and is super beautiful, but I like to do true to color editing because I want to remember exactly what color was that bridesmaid's dress. Exactly, you know.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Interesting. So how long does this take you from 4,000 to 1,500, and then you're sending it to editing them all? That's yeah that's after choosing them. So after you narrow it down, then you edit.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Then you edit. And then you have to upload or export.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

And then you have to upload. That takes a long time too, because you got a lot of photos. Um two weeks? Six weeks sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

That's just one wedding.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

It is a lot.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

It is a lot. It's a lot more than people know. And I don't think people have any idea how much like memory cards cost or how much um cameras cost or um the education costs or um the time. The time is tremendous. Effort. Yeah. Um, I um have been doing it long enough that I I feel confident now to take less because I have more conf confidence in the ones I'm taking. We're not doing the spray and pray. Have you heard of spray and pray?

SPEAKER_03 38:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

So that's when they take like a million.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Yeah. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Instead of taking one photo, they take 10.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

I don't like giving people my phone. I don't need 5,000 pictures.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm I'm good about okay. This one's good.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

I can keep moving.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

But you certainly want some to choose from, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Yeah. Yeah. But you don't need a 10,000 pictures.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

No. I mean, I could give them less if they wanted, but most of the time.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

So you you uh let me see. Uh before we go to the next question a little bit. So you said you're only doing five weddings this year.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Three.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

Three?

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

You what was at your peak how many weddings did you do in one year?

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Like eight.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

But that's a lot.

unknown 38:55

That was a lot.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

For a photographer with all the work that yeah, that was a lot.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

And then I also do a ton of um well, that's because you're doing a lot of other stuff. I do other stuff. Yeah, I do a ton of other stuff.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

You do businesses.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

I do business.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

You do stuff in your your location.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

I'm in my studio, and I do usually Sun Kadia is like the bulk of my summer.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Um, people who come from all over the country to come rent these 6,000 square foot cabins.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

Oh, they want photos. Of course they want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Well, yeah, of course, because they have like family businesses, corporate well, like families, like 30 people come together for a family reunion or a party or something, and they're like, hey, we're all together, let's get some photos.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

So, and then I do um personalized ordering sessions for each family group. And there might be seven family groups for the one session.

unknown 39:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

And um, that's usually the bulk of my summer. I can tell the economy's down though, because my Suncadia inquiries are way down.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Okay. Interesting. You've really branched out.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

I d I I have a hard time saying no.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

Do you? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

I d I I've heard the expression, you know, you're supposed to well, they say niche to get rich, right? They say just do focus on one thing. But I enjoy a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Yeah. So we're the same.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Yeah. People are like, how do you do all the things you do? I don't know, I just do it.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Because I get bored.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

I get bored easily. Yeah. You don't want to, yeah. Well, and this is totally different than my job before.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

So before we got two more questions for you, and then two closing questions, but let's do a little sandwich in between because you surprised me with your, you know, we just don't know. Your previous careers. Yeah. Yeah. What did you do prior to being joy photography?

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Okay, so I um got my four-year degree, my bachelor of science in counseling, educational,

From Psych Ward To Photo Studio

SPEAKER_00 40:44

and developmental psychology.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Yeah. And um, so I think What was your end game?

SPEAKER_03 40:50

What were you thinking you wanted to do?

SPEAKER_00 40:52

I wanted to be an elementary school guidance counselor.

SPEAKER_03 40:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

But I didn't want to do middle school, didn't want to do high school, only wanted to do a realized that they tend to last for 30 years, right? They don't they rarely retire. So I knew I was gonna live in a little town that maybe I didn't want to live in to find a job. I also needed to get my master's, and I was kind of done with school and I didn't want to get my master's. So I ended up working at um Lord's Counseling Center. Oh, okay. It's an adult inpatient psychiatric unit locked. Tri-Cities? Yeah. Yeah. It's a locked ward. And people are um there involuntarily or voluntarily. And I worked there for almost five years until I was attacked by a psychiatric or a psychotic bodybuilder.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Oh boy. Oh my.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

And um, I always say he didn't try to kill me, he didn't. He chose not to, because he easily could have. And um he kicked open the metal uh magnetic door with his bare feet to escape. Like he was a very strong man, and he ended up um being sentenced to five years at a um psychiatric hospital, long-term psychiatric hospital. He also went after one of my um co-workers, and I kind of had a out-of-body experience, I guess, where I was kicking him off of her. Wow. And I don't even remember doing that. But um the people who were witnessing all that said I did. And so I was off work for about a month or so, and then I went back um to the front of the house. Okay, the outpatient side.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

So you were done from I mean, uh duh. Some people go back. Some people did you weren't?

SPEAKER_00 42:49

No, it was Halloween.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Um, isn't that ironic? Yeah, um, and my mom loves Halloween, okay. And she and I'm her only child, and she's very nurturing, loving mother. And so she had ordered pizza for all the night shift crew for Halloween. And um, I didn't remember that. Um, anyways, I lost my train of thought for a second. Um, it was Halloween, and it was it was a big deal. Let's keep going about that. So I ended up moving to the front of the house and doing like filing and clearing. Administrative, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

And but the reason that I I wasn't totally done, I just didn't want to be on night shift anymore.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

What was your what was your why for wanting to work in this field that many people would be like, not doing it? Um what's your why?

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Well, I think I was a little um young and naive and hopeful and um wanting to help change the world and be you know a positive.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

Still, I guess why why in a in mental health?

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Oh I thought it was fascinating. I just thought psychology was super interesting. It is, yeah. Yeah. And I um Um, I loved the super psychotic patients. They were my favorite ones. Um, they were just so utterly themselves, and they were um really interesting. Um, not all of them were scary.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Um, some of them also the brain is just fascinating, you know. There was this one lady who was pretty young, and she was in the quiet room, which is like the locked padded room with a one-on-one person.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

She was in there for a long time, and she was very psychotic. And they finally figured out that she had meningitis. Wow. And after she was treated for the meningitis, she was back to a normal person.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Um, and then there was an older lady who thought she had an octopus living inside of her. And she thought all the tentacles were like in her limbs, and the only way we could get her to take her medicine was to tell her it would get rid of the octopus.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

And um there was another lady who she was so sweet. Um, but she refused to take a bath.

unknown 45:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

So she was kind of yucky. Um, but the reason why is because she thought she had AIDS.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

And she thought that if she took a bath or washed herself in the sink, that it would go down the drain and infect the entire town.

SPEAKER_03 45:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

So she was wanting to protect everyone.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

She was wanting to protect everyone. So it it makes you think, you know, um just because uh someone has a a profound mental illness doesn't mean that they're doing strange things for reasons you you may assume.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

I had a young guy who said that he came up to me and he says, Wow, how do you keep shooting stars out of your eyes? You know? Like it really gave some perspectives this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

So then you worked with aging and long-term care.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Well, I worked at the front of the house at the psych hospital for a little while because I didn't want to be on night shift anymore because there's not a bunch of people who can come help you on night shift.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

And it was also a team of only women that night. Usually we had one big strong man to help us every night. And so I so then I moved to day shift.

SPEAKER_03 46:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Because I felt more safe with day shift because outpatient can come and help you. Um, but then I moved to um, I thought some more safe demographic was elderly people and um people with more mild mental illness. Okay. As a case manager.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Okay. Yeah. Cool. So when did photography come into play?

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Well, yeah. So I um moved to Ellensburg and actually transferred with ALTC from Tri-Cities here. And I had always wanted to have a child and it wasn't looking like it would ever happen. And um, so one day I went to church and I we where we lived, we didn't have internet because we live way out in the canyon. You guys live way out. Yeah, and we didn't have internet. So after church was over, I was sitting in the parking lot just scrolling on my phone because I couldn't do that at home because I didn't have any internet. And I just had this random thought that I was gonna post on the giant community connect page that um because Zach can be scary.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

Go on.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Yeah, because Zach had given me a little um a Costco fancy camera.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

To fancy consumer level. I thought, yeah. And um, for some reason, I just had this random thought. I was like, I'm gonna post on Community Connect that I'd like to take um photos of like 10 families for free. Oh. I don't know why I thought of this, but I was just like, if I ever have a baby, I wanted to have a job that was flex that was flexible. And I don't know what those people were thinking because I had never taken photos of a family ever. And I had like 65 people respond. And um, so I ended up doing those 10 families, and they weren't terrible. And then people started asking if they could pay me and it just snowballed.

SPEAKER_03 48:09

That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

The girl I can't think of her name, Samantha, she was a brand new photographer. She did our wedding. Oh, yeah, she was, and I think she had posted that same thing that she was like, hey, I'm new, uh-huh, I'm wanting to get and she did a great job.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

And I think she's still doing photography. So that's how you got into photography. It just snowballed.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

I didn't I didn't go to school for it or anything. I've had education since then, but sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

Okay. Okay. You and I met, you and I first met. We just learned you and Katrina met when she was at the adult activity center.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:43

Yep, cool. You and I met though during my wedding industry days.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

Which I did from 2012 to two years ago.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

Um, which was great. Uh, it was time to move on. Now life for you has come full circle with Fox attending Sunflower Preschool, which we just went over five years, and you doing our preschool photos. Yeah. Which has been cool. How has your business evolved alongside your own life and family journey? Kind of just talking about.

Building A Business Around Family

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Um, well, I um, like I said, the whole reason I even wanted to do photography was because I was just trying to think of a job that would be flexible.

SPEAKER_02 49:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

Um, if I had a kid.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

And um And has that worked out? It that has worked out really well. It's not as flexible as I thought it would be. Um, just when I'm more busy, like I had this vision, like I was gonna bring him with me.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

You brought I remember you brought him a couple times.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

I did.

SPEAKER_03 49:45

And it turned out to be a little more stressful for you, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I thought it would be easier as he got older to come with me, but it's worse.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Not in a bad way. He's he's probably gonna watch this high fox.

SPEAKER_03 49:58

Um but has I mean, but if you look at it, it does have the flexibility is you could accept something or not. Whereas if you're working a 40-hour eight to five Monday through Friday, yeah, there's no flexibility. Oh, yeah, and some places aren't gonna let you bring your kid.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Right. That's absolutely true. And Zach owns his own business too.

SPEAKER_03 50:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

So um it's really nice to be able to to to mostly make our own schedule. I'm super thankful for that. And you're right, you're absolutely right. I can bring him if I have to. And um, and sometimes he likes coming, sometimes he doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Um, but um, I could never imagine having a boss again. Although I had a wonderful boss at my old job. Um but gosh, I cannot imagine being like, no, I can't volunteer in his kindergarten class this week because I have to work. I can't, no, I don't ever want to do that again. Because um, to be honest, I've never been a super career-driven person. Never. Um, even when I was in college and stuff, I always just wanted to be a mom. That's always been my That's been your goal. That's always been my goal and my focus.

SPEAKER_03 51:04

What's your favorite thing about being Fox's mom?

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Oh it's fun. It's really fun to see life through his eyes just to watch him get to experience so many things for the first time. And Zach and I like to travel a lot. And I'm um always trying to I'm trying always trying to do everything, you know. I want to I want to do every little fun thing, every little experience.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Why?

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Because I just want him to have a full life. I just want him to have to really enjoy himself and I also like to try.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

So where does that come from for you? Well, I'm an Did you did you not have that? Oh no, I did. You did have it. Absolutely. So so you want to just make sure he has those same experiences? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Okay. No, I have wonderful parents. I had a wonderful childhood.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

Sounds like it.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

And um, so I just want to make sure he has that too. And I'm an only child too. And I had some friends in the neighborhood, and at our new neighborhood, which is incredible, it's a wonderful, but it's all retired people. And so, um, so he gets he's very social. Okay. And he likes to be with other kids and he likes to play. And so I'm always just trying to find something to keep him entertained.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

You don't want him to be a lonely, only child.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

No, nope. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

So I'm always trying to do I s we spoil him terribly, you know, like every little thing. We're making our summer bucket list of all the things we want to do and buying all the little things, like the little the little butterfly, like you get the caterpillars and you develop Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

They're only kids once.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 52:45

And so good for you that you're giving him lots of kid experiences and getting them out in the world and yeah. Um, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

And I'm super sentimental about it because I only have one, right? So you know, he's gonna graduate kindergarten next week, and I'm just like, I'm so sad about it because I just everything is a first and a last.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Last question for you, then we'll do the closing questions.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

How has this felt?

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Good.

SPEAKER_03 53:11

You're doing great. This has been good. Uh uh, it's it's been good for me. Yeah, it's really cool. You've been invited into some incredibly important moments in people's lives. We've talked about that. Is there a particular session, family, or experience that has stayed with you and reminded you

Hospice Photos And Why We Print

SPEAKER_03 53:31

why you do this work?

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Probably the one I was telling you about earlier. Um, the the family that called me, who's um the matriarch was on hospice, and they just wanted me to come get some photos of them playing Mexican trained dominoes around the table. And then we wandered outside and took a few portraits in the in the yard and stuff. And like we talked about before, it's just like this eventually everything is temporary, which I've really been realizing a lot. Especially with my friend who lost her mom this week. Um, and it was sudden. You know, just that um they these photos are way more important than we realize.

SPEAKER_03 54:18

It's not about the playing the game, it's not about the it's just about the experience and spending time with someone before they leave this earth. I I read a a meme, a quote not too long ago, and it causes me to think, you know, I've lived an interesting life, and and I've, you know, people come and go and we're likely not going like I was I was glad that my mom was able to plan for her passing, have hospice care, have that six weeks, because it's likely that's not how it's gonna happen. It's gonna be an ordinary day doing an ordinary thing, and then next thing you know, you're not gonna be here anymore. Yeah. And so I think it is really important to take the picture, to hire the photographer, yeah, to um shoot the video to get you in the photo, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Right, not just be the one taking them.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Yeah, if we wait, well, we could wait, but when's that time gonna happen? Are families doing family photos? Is it happening?

SPEAKER_00 55:20

Yes, absolutely. Um, this spring has been slow, okay, really slow.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

Slowest I've ever had dramatically.

SPEAKER_03 55:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Um, except for COVID.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

But Fox was a brand new baby, so it was okay. I actually spent a lot of time with Bailey Duncan during COVID because we were pregnant together. Oh. Our boys are only a couple weeks apart. Okay. And we were both business owners. Okay. And we both couldn't work. Oh. And so we spent a lot of time together. I did not know. They're babies. Yeah. And um, yeah, this spring I can really tell the gas is five dollars a gallon and the groceries are insane. And uh it's definitely been down.

SPEAKER_03 55:57

Yeah. Yeah. So you think so this is uh this isn't uh we have to do this thing. This is uh if we've got the money, we'll do this thing.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Not always. I think it kind of depends on the the people's priorities. Everybody prioritizes what's the most important to them.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

And um, I've also found that like um maybe very young couples who don't have a lot of money, if it's something that they value, that's where they will spend their money and then they'll they'll make other things work around it. It just depends on the people.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

Yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Yeah, but um I'm always thankful when they do come find me. But I've been trying to fill my my my soul cup and because I haven't been filling my my wallet this spring. So I've been volunteering a lot this spring in different ways and donating sessions and to to different kinds of charitable auctions and um been doing a lot of volunteering at the school and what would you do if if if photography wasn't here? I would like to do it.

SPEAKER_03 57:10

Would you go back to working with seniors?

SPEAKER_00 57:12

I'm really lucky that Zach is successful and I would beg to be a stay-at-home mom. Okay, honestly. And um if that wasn't an option, if you had to get a job, I think I'd want to work in a school because um I really like the community of a school and the teachers.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

I've been really lucky to get to volunteer in this classroom once a week and then at the different events and stuff, and I just really love the camaraderie of all the teachers and knowing all the students and them recognizing me and I recognize them, and I I really like that. Yeah, it invigorates me.

SPEAKER_03 57:52

Yeah. Okay, here we go. Final two questions. Based on your life experiences, your journey as a business owner, a mom, and someone who helps

Hope Through Meaningful Work

SPEAKER_03 58:04

preserve people's memories. What message of hope would you like to share with the world?

SPEAKER_00 58:11

Of hope? This is really hard, David. This is a hard question for me. I told you when we were coming up the stairs that I went from a heavy, serious job to a light-hearted job because it was easier on my spirit. So it's hard for me to dig deep. I don't like emotions anymore as I get older. I struggle with struggle with them.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

What keeps you striving? What what keeps you waking up going, today's gonna be a good day? What what what is that for you?

SPEAKER_00 58:42

I love with work anyway, with with my my business. It I do get to see most of the time um people's reaction to the photos because they do the in-person ordering session with most people, and it fills my cup to see how much people love their photos. Um, they love them. Sometimes it brings tears to their eyes, and it just is really fulfilling and special knowing that this is something they're gonna have forever. This is something they're gonna grab in a fire.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

You know?

SPEAKER_03 59:17

Um and so creating meaning.

SPEAKER_00 59:20

Yeah. Even though it's a much more lighthearted job than my other jobs, it's still very special.

SPEAKER_03 59:27

Would you say it's the most meaningful job you've ever had?

SPEAKER_00 59:32

It's up there. I think they're all they've all been really meaningful. Um working with um disabled seniors that were in their home, and I was case managing, getting caregivers to them, working at a psychiatric hospital where people were at their absolute lowest. Um, and then being with people who are maybe at their highest and really celebrating their family or their business, or um I never thought about that before.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

Um I've they've all been really important. Not on purpose. Maybe I subconsciously chose them.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

Um what drives you? You're you're someone that I consider to be a uh do gooder, not that you know, like you're out there just doing good all the time, and that's your whole thing. That's but it is you're you're someone who wants to bring light to the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Oh, thanks.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:27

Where does that come from for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

Oh I've had a really good life. I don't know knock on wood, I want to continue having a really long life, good, long life. Um, my parents have given me a really great life. And there's a lot of people who are very close to me who had a much more challenging life than I did. And um I I it's important to me that people f feel good when they're around me. And that um I'm trying to and I'm not perfect, you know. I get cranky with the rest of them, you know. But um I never do just ask Katrina. Never.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:13

I'm happy all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:15

I I don't know where it comes from.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:18

Um Well, I would say it comes from your family.

unknown 1:01:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:21

Because you said it. You your parents gave you a good life.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:24

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:25

And so you you want you're replicating that. You're you're bringing that to your son.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

It's important.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:30

To the people around you and through your work.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

And I and I have faith too.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

It's important to me to um be encouraging and to other people. I I want people to feel in a good mood when they're around me, when they're getting their pictures, or I want them to be happy about what they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:47

Makes for better pictures, right? Oh, yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:51

It's like parents quit telling your kids to smile. Let me do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

Yeah, right. Cool. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. Okay. If there is one question you've always wanted to ask me, but never have, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

And you kept answering it. I was gonna ask you why you got out of the DJing

Why David Left Wedding DJ Life

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

wedding business.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:10

Oh, yeah, it was it was, I was actually um, I can answer this a little more in depth. I was ready to get out a few years before I got out.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:19

Because it's on Saturdays.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:21

Um, what happened for me is uh well, it's kind of like you said, I'm you and I are a little like I get bored.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:28

And so, you know, after you've done 500 weddings, it's you did 500. No, I'm saying after you I don't know how many I did.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:35

A hundred.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:36

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:36

Ish. Um I was ready to move on probably two, three years before I actually finally pulled the trigger and stopped doing weddings just because I was ready to move on. It wasn't like it was bad or anything. Um I was actually on a trajectory to uh this plays into it. I was growing. I had hired someone to help me grow. Oh that blu that person that it did not go well.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:06

Like a consultant?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:07

No, I had a business manager. Oh, it did not go well. Okay, and they lied, they it was yeah, it was terrible. So, and and this all kind of happened, uh COVID happened. So coming out of that, I was just like, uh, just you know, so I kind of just did it for a couple more years and then and letting go can be hard, right? Yeah, so I was kind of used to that, but now that this is year two, this is great. Yeah, I've moved on.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:33

Well, that's why I do less weddings now, is because now that he goes to school five days a week, Saturdays are oh, you don't want your yeah. Saturdays are even more important.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:42

There was that too. It was like every weekend, because it was like, or every other weekend got a wedding. Even if I wasn't doing it, you still have to, you know, make sure it's happening.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:52

Um, so and it's all day.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:54

It's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

They're still great though. They're sure fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

Oh, yeah, they're great. Once you're there and you're doing it, it's great. But like you're talking about, yeah. After you've been at a wedding all day, it takes a whole day to just kind of regroup and reset. So your whole weekend, even if you're just doing one wedding, it's your whole weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:12

Absolutely. I know people who do back-to-back weddings on Saturdays and Sundays, and I'm like, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

No, I'm good. Yeah, I did that a couple times. It's yeah, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

I I mean, when it comes down to it, I just I just want to be with my family.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

I want to listen to a podcast and fold laundry on a Sunday, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

And just go to my garden and play with my dogs.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:34

Super cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

Be a mom.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:35

This has been great. Yeah, thank you. You did it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:38

I did it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

It's very nice. Okay, friends. Have a good day.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Thank you.